I won't launch into a super long rant, as anyone who is playing Horde right now knows what I mean. Instead, I'd like to summarize the problem and propose a simple solution for each:
BG Queues are Beyond Broken
1. Horde has to wait 2+ hours every single day just to get into AV. This incentivizes botting, as it's the only efficient way to obtain HKs.
SOLUTION: Remove any restrictions on Mercenary Mode and let Horde play AV against Horde players (and any Alli players that want to show up). The solutions to other problems listed below will also help, as they will speed up AV games.
BG rep PvP items are unobtainable
2. When in ANY battleground, the rep acquired is virtually zero. There are no marks, so we cannot farm reputation to obtain PvP gear. As such, obtaining any viable PvP gear requires reaching Warlord/HWL, which again incentivizes botting.
SOLUTION: Dramatically increase reputation in battlegrounds AND/OR bring back Honor Marks to be turned in for both honor and rep. This will distribute the number of players across battlegrounds a bit more evenly, and may help with AV queues as well by incentivizing winning the game for extra honor.
The above problems DIRECTLY incentivize botting
3. AFK botters are rampant in battlegrounds. Why? Because the queues are ****ING INSANE and most people can't sit at their PC 8+ hours a day hoping to get AV to pop. The queue times directly incentivize botting. Furthermore, the current AV meta is "turtle and farm HKs" which directly disincentivizes melee from participating in the brawl, as we die instantly in the choke points and get sent to the GY (which means we often lose out on HKs). As such, we sit back and let the ranged get the HKs so we can stay alive to obtain as many HKs as possible.
SOLUTION: Introduce reinforcements (but more than the 600 that gets introduced with TBC to make AV games longer than a few minutes) and introduce bonus honor to those who have recently assaulted a GY or Tower, to incentivize players distributing themselves more evenly across the map. Since HKs are what's needed for gear, this honor bonus should be significant enough to incentivize running around/past choke points. Anything to clear up the "turtle and farm" meta.
(edited to add:)
The Vanilla System is fun, but only when wearing rose-colored glasses
4. The whole system of obtaining a specific number of HK's to obtain the best gear is "similar" to the original rank system, but since we don't want people to have to maintain their ranks, a new system is required - one that will break the "turtle and farm" meta but won't break BGs the way they were broken in TBC.
**SOLUTION:** Instead of using HK's to obtain ranks, use honor. Players have to BUY ranks with honor earned. Each rank progressively gets harder and harder to buy (and we remove the 75k honor limit). Furthermore, we create large honor bonuses for assaulting GYs/Towers, capturing the flag, or capping bases in AB (and maybe extra honor for staying in the vicinity of the flags?). Changing some of these mechanics won't break the vanilla experience, but will dramatically improve the BG PvP experience.
When TBC introduced reinforcements to AV, it broke the turtle meta but it disincentivized any actual killing of enemy players. We need to preserve the "battle" in "battlegrounds" without forcing players to rush boss and ignore enemy players. Create short but powerful Honor bonuses such that if you are assaulting an objective with your teammates, while the objective is contested you get significantly more honor points. This incentivizes killing enemy players without immediately rushing the boss.
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I'm curious what other people think about these solutions, but I'm 10000% confident that every Horde PvP player is ***FURIOUS*** with the queue timers. This should be among the top priorities to be solved as soon as possible, because right now PvP is essentially impossible on Horde without no-lifing or botting.
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Member
It's Obvious: PvP on this server is broken, and needs immediate attention
Edited: December 10, 2023
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Member
Another easy (yet temporary) "fix" could be to allow us to queue for both BGs and RDF at the same time, so we don't have to sit on our thumbs waiting for AV to pop. Let us at least do other content while waiting for BGs to pop off.
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Member
I agree, however it might be too late. If issues aren't dealt with early on people start leaving and don't come back, even after changes have been made.
Personally I don't think they will redesign the honor system. It should have been done in the beta phase because doing it now will require a lot of work, from coding to beta testing to catching any new exploits or bugs when it's live. At most I think they will enable mercenary mode and *maybe* up the rep in BGs if we're lucky.
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Member
Whatever they do, the fastest way to solve this with almost 0 work is to make AV matches last max 60 minutes. No matter what, it ends at 60 minutes. I thought I disliked the reinforcements idea, but this is way worse. Like, literally-literally unplayable.
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Member
You are right, with everything. Unfortunately Warmane does not listen to what the community has to say.
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Member
tbh u farm rep from AV quests not from kills or something.
the best solution would be to enable more AVs sind theres hundreds of people sitting 3h in que....i dont understand this restricting at all to just have 2-3 AVs total allowed.
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Member
AVs aren't hardcapped at 2-3, it's just there are way more Horde PvPers than Alliance.
I get instant queue at Alliance.
And the 10+ hour matches don't help things either
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Member
Fixing this doesn't have to be that complicated. The HKs people currently have can be converted into a set amount of honor per HK, and the ranks they earned can be set at those amounts of honor as well. I agree that the actual vanilla system of "standings" and honor decay is dismal, and it would be better to just have players earn ranks at certain set amounts of honor. It's an easy, simple system that will make everyone happy. But diminishing returns also need to be applied to HKs from here on out, and battlegrounds need to give their proper honor rewards for winning or losing the game, and they need to provide Marks of Honor.
These changes are easy to implement, but need to be done quickly, before people decide this server is no good for PVP and leave and don't come back.
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Member
Well said. But I doubt anything will change. I'm new to warmane and came to onyxia for the pvp. I've been told the devs don't much care for feedback and so it makes me think they don't even read this place.
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Member
warmane doesnt give a ****, else they would have acted long ago. First and the most obvious was to close AV, which they never did.
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Member
This thread stays at the top of the forum until the issue is resolved.
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Member
well i got bad news for you
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Member
lol, things are getting worse... at this point, I would suggest Horde and Alliance just organize a world event to farm HK. AV is just a means to meet now, so you could be farming each other anywhere else - no restrictions, no queues, just pick a place where both graveyards are close to each other. The only thing is not to break the rules and voluntarily give each other HKs, so as long as you "fight"/spam blizzard, you should be fine lol Who needs BGs with this broken system!
Edited: December 12, 2023
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Member
Yeah I played earlier today, it's like they copy/pasted WotLK Merc Mode with zero unit testing and merged into main and called it good haha. Though I do have confidence they're both aware of the problem and working on it. If this lasts more than a few days, though... I dunno.
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Member
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