A suggestion to the staff team for the future

[dancietw]

Yeah still happening, and still some players report those who wont go comit suicide and stay behind eating/drinking up. I lost count how many times i got flagged as afk middle of combat, just cos i didn't have enough deaths.

Got nothing against eating/drinking up to full mana, but the players that IMO really ruin the bg are the ones that are completely AFK standing still, only attacking when being attacked.

People like this annoy me: https://ibb.co/Nnjf0Fs

A shadow priest without any buffs, full mana. standing in the same area for 1 hour. when ally pushes he runs to the right side of the tree. doesnt do any dmg, doesnt help at all, he probably is watching a movie while doing this.

[Malariz]

Can we please have the normal ranking system ? Even if it's easier to get RP...It's common sense. HK grinding WILL ALWAYS BE ABUSED. It's not rewarding, and boring. I miss searching for premades, joining an ab, or having more that 4 people in a wsg. Warmane, you gotta do something

[IurnLich]

I have to say I'm very disappointed with what I'm reading from the moderators on this and similar issues. They refuse to take any accountability for being out of touch with players, or implementing a system that incentivized EVERYONE who tried doing BGs to do this. The leadership at warmane remained silent and let everyone guess what was going to be accepted or not - a rule that is not enforced has no power.

Blaming the players for an implementation made by the leadership is awful. Absolutely cannot respect people who do that. If you guys implemented a system that STRONGLY incentivizes your community to break rules that went unenforced for weeks, that IS on YOU and not the players. The players have no power over what the developers create as incentives. It's like saying ununionized workers have power against massive corporations. We aren't capable of making the rules. You do - even if it's implied but the systems you implement. That includes perverse incentives like what you're seeing now. Think of this situation like so: you created a system that STRONGLY incentivizes ONE kind of play, while leaving up rules from years ago that say WELL no actually you're not allowed to do that. This breeds confusion. When a system strongly incentivizes play that is against the rules, you SERIOUSLY need to reconsider the system.

[Morvion]

just like the first gold/rep/merc bug at av, ppl know it was bug, instead of reporting the bug and playing the bg normally they exploited it, and when they got they gold/rep wiped they cried.
we all know the system is far from perfect, but think about this, they offer a server without require yall to pay a single cent so they are not in some kinda obligation to apologize if they offer a product that doesnt suit your taste. but there are rules, if u break the rules cz u abuse and exploit bugs u'll get ban, how is it their fault, lol

[Obnoxious]

I have to say I'm very disappointed with what I'm reading from the moderators on this and similar issues. They refuse to take any accountability for being out of touch with players, or implementing a system that incentivized EVERYONE who tried doing BGs to do this. The leadership at warmane remained silent and let everyone guess what was going to be accepted or not - a rule that is not enforced has no power.

Blaming the players for an implementation made by the leadership is awful. Absolutely cannot respect people who do that. If you guys implemented a system that STRONGLY incentivizes your community to break rules that went unenforced for weeks, that IS on YOU and not the players. The players have no power over what the developers create as incentives. It's like saying ununionized workers have power against massive corporations. We aren't capable of making the rules. You do - even if it's implied but the systems you implement. That includes perverse incentives like what you're seeing now. Think of this situation like so: you created a system that STRONGLY incentivizes ONE kind of play, while leaving up rules from years ago that say WELL no actually you're not allowed to do that. This breeds confusion. When a system strongly incentivizes play that is against the rules, you SERIOUSLY need to reconsider the system.

Look at what time it is, it's quote-myself-o'clock!

What's delusional is someone who did that bull**** trying to act like they are some sort of "vIcTiM oF sOcIeTy."

"It isn't my fault that I stole that luxury car, your honor, it's the fault of the system that made it cost more than I can afford!!111!"

[IurnLich]

but there are rules, if u break the rules cz u abuse and exploit bugs u'll get ban, how is it their fault, lol

It's their fault because they implemented a system that happens to have perverse incentives. The right answer is to either change the system or step up and clarify for the community what is and isn't going to be accepted. Suddenly enforcing the rules without warning after weeks go by is not a responsible behavior, especially when they come on after and say they are blameless. Shifting blame onto the playerbase, who act within the ether of unenforced rules and implied incentives is just a gross look IMO.

[Arbiterone]

It's their fault because they implemented a system that happens to have perverse incentives. The right answer is to either change the system or step up and clarify for the community what is and isn't going to be accepted. Suddenly enforcing the rules without warning after weeks go by is not a responsible behavior, especially when they come on after and say they are blameless. Shifting blame onto the playerbase, who act within the ether of unenforced rules and implied incentives is just a gross look IMO.

Are you expecting an apology from the staff for you breaking our rules?
You are very entitled.

[IurnLich]

Are you expecting an apology from the staff for you breaking our rules?
You are very entitled.

I'm outlining what I believe is respectable and appropriate communication from high up in an organization.

[Obnoxious]

I'm outlining what I believe is respectable and appropriate communication from high up in an organization.

Not a single player - who isn't being disingenuous, at least - didn't know about the rules and thought trading kills like that was all well and dandy.
The only gross thing here is pretending to have been oblivious about it and acting like lacking the common sense a toddler would show.

[Morvion]

It's their fault because they implemented a system that happens to have perverse incentives. The right answer is to either change the system or step up and clarify for the community what is and isn't going to be accepted. Suddenly enforcing the rules without warning after weeks go by is not a responsible behavior, especially when they come on after and say they are blameless. Shifting blame onto the playerbase, who act within the ether of unenforced rules and implied incentives is just a gross look IMO.

ofc they could change the system to our preference, but is it their obligation? i dont think so. its their accountability fault if we paid them for their service/product cz we have right to get the product worth the price, but the fact is that we use their product/service for free means we dont have a say to make them do this and that. we can make suggestions and they take em for consideration but in the end its their decision and their server.
the rules are set for a long time if not since the server established, i dont think they are responsible to warn us regularly.

[IurnLich]

The only gross thing here is pretending to have been oblivious about it and acting like lacking the common sense a toddler would show.

I think you've misunderstood me.

[Repost]

I have to say I'm very disappointed with what I'm reading from the moderators on this and similar issues. They refuse to take any accountability for being out of touch with players, or implementing a system that incentivized EVERYONE who tried doing BGs to do this.

And we're very disappointed that people either can't read the rules, can't assume the most obvious rule ever exists, or try to come up with ways to pretend that rule existing somehow means that we approve of abusing it.

The leadership at warmane remained silent and let everyone guess what was going to be accepted or not - a rule that is not enforced has no power.

Who had to guess? It's literally on the explicit list of things not allowed.

Blaming the players for an implementation made by the leadership is awful. Absolutely cannot respect people who do that.

Actually we're pointing to the rules that everyone was supposed to read and follow.

If you guys implemented a system that STRONGLY incentivizes your community to break rules that went unenforced for weeks, that IS on YOU and not the players.

Have you tried robbing banks? I heard if you get away you'll only have to do it once, doesn't make it right though.

The players have no power over what the developers create as incentives. It's like saying ununionized workers have power against massive corporations. We aren't capable of making the rules. You do - even if it's implied but the systems you implement. That includes perverse incentives like what you're seeing now. Think of this situation like so: you created a system that STRONGLY incentivizes ONE kind of play, while leaving up rules from years ago that say WELL no actually you're not allowed to do that. This breeds confusion. When a system strongly incentivizes play that is against the rules, you SERIOUSLY need to reconsider the system.

Just do yourself a favor and stop trying to find a reason that the rules aren't the rules. They are the rules, end of story.

[IurnLich]

ofc they could change the system to our preference, but is it their obligation?

We don't disagree on this topic.

its their accountability fault if we paid them for their service/product cz we have right to get the product worth the price, but the fact is that we use their product/service for free

People do pay for this service. The plausible deniability of calling them donations is cute, and I'm indifferent to it, but the server doesn't run on fairy dust. In any case, I would feel the same if the service was completely free.

the rules are set for a long time if not since the server established, i dont think they are responsible to warn us regularly.

Here you and I disagree. I'm sure that the leadership of warmane is involved in the community and is constantly aware of events taking place within it. One can look at them as the shepherds of their community, and IMO it's perfectly reasonable to expect guidance from them. If there will be consequences for something, a human touch is nice. Friendly reminders have value IMO. But that's just my philosophy.

[IurnLich]

Just do yourself a favor and stop trying to find a reason that the rules aren't the rules. They are the rules, end of story.

I'm sorry but the philosophy surrounding rules isn't always so simple. Particularly when real life people have to navigate a landscape which includes rules. Is anybody surprised that hundreds if not thousands of players engaged in win trading? If it was not enforced and there was a period if time where the issue went without being addressed, naturally you're going to see people exploiting the opportunities they have.

Listen, all I've been trying to get at is there's a better way to deal with your community. I'm clearly getting the message I should stay in my own late, but the simple fact (and my interactions here with the moderators are just making things worse) is that I have just been unimpressed with the responses toward the community. I get it - message received loud and clear.

[AncientHog]

this "win trading" is just a formalized version of what's been happening in AV since day one. if the pvp rank system actually incentivized match wins it never would've happened. sure, ban the people, but fix the system itself too so we can actually enjoy some real BGs and not this nonstop bridge farm garbage