Dear Warmane Community,
I apologize if this has been already discussed but I searched far and wide and couldn't find a similar post. I am writing to address a recurring concern that has unfortunately plagued our server: ninjalooting. It has become increasingly apparent that instances of ninjalooting are not only persistent but, regrettably, on the rise. Many of us have personally experienced the frustration that accompanies dedicating significant time and effort to obtain coveted items, only to have them unfairly taken by these individuals.
However, upon reflection, it has become evident that the current disciplinary measures implemented by Warmane may not serve as a sufficient deterrent for such behavior. The penalty of temporary suspension or loss of account standing, while intended to dissuade misconduct, appears to have little impact on the offending players. The repercussions, in the form of diminished standing points, often prove inconsequential once players attain a certain level of gear progression. Consequently, it appears that the severity of the punishment does not adequately correspond to the severity of the offense.
This issue was brought to the forefront once more during a recent raid, where approximately five BIS items were stolen by the raid leader. The prospect of a mere 30-day (or 60day) ban as retribution for such actions seems inadequate, especially considering the magnitude of the losses for the rest of the raiders.
It is my belief that Warmane's current approach lacks the necessary incentives to effectively deter ninjalooters, given the relatively lenient nature of the sanctions imposed. Indeed, it is conceivable that those engaging in such behavior may simply resume their activities once the ban period has elapsed, while potentially maintaining alternate accounts in the interim.
To address this issue effectively, I propose the implementation of more stringent penalties, specifically the confiscation of unlawfully obtained items in addition to any imposed ban. By adopting this measure, Warmane would effectively eliminate any incentive for ninjalooting, thereby safeguarding the integrity of our community and fostering a fair and equitable gaming environment. Naturally, such measures would only be enacted following a thorough investigation and substantiation of allegations of ninjalooting.
In conclusion, I urge the administration of Warmane to reconsider its approach to combatting ninjalooting by adopting measures that more closely align with the severity of the offense. By doing so, we can collectively work towards preserving the integrity of our server and upholding the principles of fairness and accountability. Or even coming up with a different ways how to make the punishments more effective. Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Your long time player
P.S.: Yes, chatgpt helped me to make my post hopefully easier to understand, considering English isn't my first nor second langugage.
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Member
Punishments for ninjalooting
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Forum Veteran
Ninja items being taken away has been suggested many times. Dismissed all the same, sadly.
Warmane doesn't do item transfers for such cases.
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Moderator
Even Blizzard doesn't have a policy on this, only for scamming. We already went further by giving these ban, which have an increasing duration for repeat offenders. Considering the amount of complains this gets, it would be more likely for the GM Team to decide it's time to revoke any anti-ninja rules and let the community handle it on their own, than for it to be expanded further.
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Member
I agree with obnoxious. Warmane shouldnt even ban anyone for ninja looting. Just blacklist people who ninja loot, raid with trusted people.
Its not warmane GM job to handle ninjas. Just raid with trusted raid leaders. Warmane has to use alot of resources for nothing to deal with false reports and trying to get leaders banned for nonsense. There is also too many grey areas for example retris rolling dbw etc.
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Moderator
I didn't say any of that, so you can't be agreeing with me.
To clarify, I am very for punishment for stealing loot. Blizzard essentially solved that problem with personal loot, but that was many expansions later and I'm not even sure it could be implemented on an older client like we use. In our environment, where accounts can be created for free and there's no subscription cost being wasted if someone gets banned for a while, this sort of behavior is even more predominant. Worse comes to worse and someone gets infamy, just farm some gold, trade for Coins and get a name change. So yeah, my personal opinion is there is a purpose for such rules, whether in this form or more refined.
What I did say is simply that the GM Team would be more likely to drop anti-ninja rules than to increase the workload it involves, that's all. They have many other responsibilities, yet I wouldn't doubt ninja reports end up taking a huge slice of their time away from other things.
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Member
They did that in the past and people kept changing names/factions or simply making alt accounts just to make raids and ninja all the items. By modern software and AI you can even change your voice too.
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Member
Agreed here with obnoxious, banning ninja looting has only made it a witch hunt for people to punish others for crimes they haven't commited in hopes of banning the actual thiefs.
Actual ninja looters are smarter than that. What's to stop you from making a new account, power leveling it to 80 in 6 hours, boosting it in a quick icc10hc and buying boes then starting a bunch of 8hc pug runs and ninja looting all the items for yourself or guild members? Oh no 60 day ban on a burner account. I've seen many ninja looters who blatantly steal loot do this crap and it works perfectly for them because I.P bans aren't issued. Same issue with ninja looting is the same issue with botting. Ban account, make new account, profit.
It sucks but that's the issue with F2P
Exactly. You can only make it harder to do, but can't remove it completely.
Meanwhile innocents get banned for breaking the technicality of ninja looting, like hitting need on an off-spec item. Tanks/Healer problems in RDF is primarily due to them not being allowed to roll on items they actually need because "It's ninja looting" and for you to need on dps items you have to play dps, so even queueing as tank is not only disallowing you to get the items you need, but is detrimental to your own account.
Then you have MS/OS rules for bis players or near bis players, who can't roll on the 1-2 items they need for all 3 specs rather than a pug rolling on 14 items they need. So the loot system is new player favored, the community is encouraged to behave poorly (you'll see every pug just leave raid groups the moment their item doesn't drop) and instead of allowing players to make their own rules we have the current rules that apply to all raids even if there is 24/25 guild members in it with 1 pug who agreed with pre-disclosed rules.
All in all Warmane would do better without GM's being burdened with Ninja looter bans.
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Moderator
IP bans are pointless, unless the person somehow has a static IP, which just about no home user does. All it takes is cycling your modem to get a new lease and go around an IP ban, while someone else using the same ISP could end up with a banned account for something they didn't do.
No innocent is getting banned. Being ignorant of the rules doesn't make someone innocent. Claiming you clicked by mistake doesn't erase the fact you did it. Anyone who takes an item they weren't supposed to according to the rules is "an actual ninja looter," they just might not be a "professional" one.
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Moderator
Is anyone actually power leveling alts, getting people to carry and feed them loot, just to get banned for stealing another item? Sounds like a great way to exponentially waste time while raising the question of why bother stealing from pugs if you can get carried through a raid that doesn't suck while being fed loot?
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Moderator
A waste of time that raises the question of why bother... just like ganking and corpse camping low levels?
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Forum Veteran
Probably not. Though due to easiness of making accounts, some people have opted to spreading their character roster to multiple accounts instead of having a singular account with multiple highly geared characters.
It's easy to make/end up with multiple accounts with few characters each. If 1 account gets banned, you're left with 4 other accounts to use. Plenty of characters left to use during 1 account's ban. Ban probably doesn't hurt as much. If the player would be the regular user with 5-7 geared characters on a single account, that ban hurts a bit more.
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Member
Id recommend just letting the community handle ninja looters. Obviously most blatant cases should be maybe banned. But Ive seen people banned for not giving retri DBW. Or guy rolling 3 spec as MS Spec, and rolling highest as OS and reporting leader as ninja and getting banned. So many false banns that make it risky to host pugs and people trying to get leaders banned for nonsense
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Forum Veteran
Community used to manage that. We had forum thread to report such players (screenshots/video). If the report was solid, the ninja's name was added to Blacklist addon's ignore list and shared. People just had to keep the file up to date and avoid joining raids with those ninjas.
It used to be bit of a PUG killer when somebody joined a raid, told everybody that the leader is on the list. It was beneficial too when ninjas tried to join a raid. Nobody wanted to run with ninjas, so either lead had to kick them, or people would be suspicious of the leader as well.
It's bit ineffective with ease of access to renames nowadays.
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Member
What about when others pretend to be you and ruin your reputation? I've seen that done many times, Awbee is one person who has had numerous fake "Awbee's" ninja loot as if they were him.
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Forum Veteran
And how do people fall for fake "Awbee's"? They blindly trust a stranger they see online? Too hard to ask for Awcee to log Awbee to prove it's them? "What do you mean you can't? So you're not him then? If you don't/can't log, it makes your *** look suspicious nonetheless."
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