Concerns about Naxxramas and Ahn'qiraj

[EmperorDrand]

Since some guilds manage to clear successfully Black wing lair using the "allmydpsareRank14" strategy, i have some serious concerns about temple of ahn qiraj and Naxxramas related to cap the amount of players to 25 but not nerfing any stat beside some "add removing". I gonna show you some examples of why this 2 instance requires exactly the 40 player amount or be nerfed to the ground and below.

Temple of AHN'QIRAJ:

Skeram: Requires 6 tanks because the copies can use the same mc as the boss, being troublesome for caster composition or having the very bad luck of both tanks from one side get mc and them one copies wipes the raid spaming earth shock

Princess Huhuran: Requires precisley 15 players at melee range to protect range and healers from poison volley at enrange, remind those raids requires 5-6 healers, making the caster/hunter amount only on 4-5 while the melees have to nerf his dps using Nature resist gear

Twin emperors: beside the warlock thing, the emperors also have the problem of inmunity damage who split your dps to the half and these 2 bosses have at least 2 million health (2 onyxias or 2 ragnaros if you want to math) but remember if one warlock die that means a entire wipe because vek'lor gonna run directly to his brother and heal him

NAXXRAMAS:

Patchwerk: Requires directly 4 tanks and since hateful strike practically don't have cooldown becomes a problem only having 5-6 healers

Four horsemen: 8 tanks, 12 heals and only remains 5 dps, not precisly a good way to get the corrupted ashbringer

Kel'thuzad: Mind control the tank and also 4 more players (who surprise one can be the off tank) and need specific 5 mages for that, and also in phase 3 5 crypth lords gonna appear, 2 of them have to be tank and have the luck your off tank or cryptlord off tanks get mind control

With these examples i hope with the release of the next 2 raids don't become a impossible to complete launch

[cyphleet]

They arent even out yet, i dont get the fuzz. Have some trust in the devs, they know what they are doing. They fixed the faults in BWL very fast, BWL was clearable for most people within the second reset.

[Propagandalf]

I think people throw around the phrases "vanilla experience" a lot when it comes to these things. What we have on the server currently, imho, is exactly the vanilla experience. Some guilds clear Raids fast, some take a couple of weeks, do progression, clear and farm it. Other guilds struggle, take longer. I mean honestly, there's guilds that cant properly do a 10/10 MC every week.

But that's how it was in actual vanilla. People might have been blinded by Retail classic, where everything was easy af and people where just rushing through every raid.

And about your post and the mechanics. Yes, you've got some valid points, and these mechanics are correct. Some points are irrelevant though, for example Vel'kor: If the warlock tank dies, it does not matter how big your raid is, you still die :D
The beautiful thing is that you might just need to figure out how to do it? I mean, you've been raiding with your group for a couple of months now. Don't you think it's fun to look at a boss mechanic and wonder how you can beat it. That's what this is all about tbh.

[sandelf]

Princess Huhuran could be an issue because of the silencing volley meaning you can't just put anybody in melee range, but worst case scenario they can reduce the requirement to 9 players instead of 15.

The main concern could be Four Horsemen because lack of so many healers would mean a dramatic change in tactics, which may not even work. So, how that one could be tuned without breaking the very mechanics of the fight or reverting to Wotlk Naxx version would be interesting.

All the rest are fine because either they can be off-tanked or, in the case of Twins, you fail if you let your caster tank(s) die anyway - even in 40 man - due to loss of threat.

[Santori]

Well, obviously they are gonna adapt AQ to 25m raiding - wouldnt expect it to be tweaked to 40m raids.

When it comes to Naxx, im not sure if we will see "classic" Naxx, or they just gonna add Wotlk Naxx with classic loottables, along with lowering numbers. If they really manage to introduce "classic" Naxx, its definitely gonna be tweaked for 25m raiding - i dont see them changing 25m to 40m just for a few months.

In any case its good to point those things out, just in case if was overlooked when working on those raids.

And yeah, its gonna be hard - but thats fine, that makes it only funnier. Looking forward to it :3

[Tausen]

Would be nice if they allow guilds to ptr and test the content. these two raids were completely untested in open beta and even while testing mc/bwl their release were still scuffed.

[Cyrukhone]

give hybrid specs some love with those changes too.. raids being limited to 25 ppl and the mechanics barely touched so that you have to min max 25 means there is no room for shaman, druid, priest and pala dps. you could say the same applied to classic but you had 40 slots to fill and you could easily clear the raid even with 5 shaman druid and priest dps in a raid. now people cant clear the raid with r14 gear which is way overgeared. imagine doing ulduar with t10 thats what r14 gear is.

[koushty88]

I dont see a problem with the raid launching and not being completable due to tuning or bugs or whatever. Its the nature of the beast, in retail i cant even count how many raids launched in an uncompletable state until devs had to do some serious hotfixes, why worry about it on a heavily customized pserver. The raids will launch we will go in and we will figure it out and give feedback and devs will adjust accordingly to how the want it. To me this is actually the best part of raiding aka stepping into the unknown. I also believe content is perfectly doable without r14s they just speed up the proccess slightly.

[catana6]

no place for shamans in 25 ppl? wut? bis healers atm

[veshextra]

to be frank, warmane didnt really prove they consider adjusting the raids to 25 players instead of 40 players except for Majordomo ON RELEASE yet.
practically, all bosses (and for AQ40 also trash will become relevant!!) is designed around 40 players and 3-4 tanks, not 2-3 from a 25 players raid perspective

it will start with the first trash pack in aq40, to skeram, bug trio, the trash between twins and Ouro/Cthun, etc.

[c1rc41]

I could be wrong but I always assumed they were just going to re-tune the WOTLK Naxx for level 60. It'd be a hell of a lot easier (though admittedly less genuine #nochanges) than re-tuning the vanilla raid down to 25 people.