Hello,
So recently i was banned for raid ninja but due to lack of any info, i cant tell what i did wrong. There were couple of things that happened before this from which to pick from but none of them seem to fit the ban in my understanding, i read the ninja policies:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922
however it also has no information that would fit anything i remember doing.
Now i was unbanned and told not to do it again but that just raised more questions for me, such as do what again?
Now 2 things happened in the days leading to the ban, 1 we killed RS10n and the exact moment we killed the boss, world server went down and everyone was disconnected. When we came back the dragon corpse was gone and all loot with it.
Second thing is i did a icc25 pug run and in it, a holypaladin needed on a spirit ring, so i didnt give it to him, but gave to next highest roll as lets be honest if the entirety of a item dosent fit ur mainspec benefits then its not a valid MS roll. Otherwise we should start allowing healers to roll on CTS from now on cuz it gives haste, thats nice for a healer.
So im grateful for the unban really, not trying to cause no drama but as i lead a ton of pug raids, i need to know what i did and how to avoid getting banned again. If i start passing out loot to everyone who rolls on it regardless the nature of the item, that would be ninja and if i dont give item that fit the roller its again ninja ?
Any clearification on this would be very appriciated, did not like getting banned at all and would like to avoid it in the future.
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Member
What is raid ninja loot
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Moderator
Did your loot rules explicit and clearly state something like that? If not, that's why you got banned. You don't get to pick and choose like that, you have to follow the rules you informed players who joined the raid. That player could have only joined because there was nothing in the loot rules covering that.
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Member
Well that clears it thanks for the answer, know atleast what i was banned for. I figured since the community has built a MS and OS roll system here its what to abide by so bring some sense into the looting system. But since the loot rules dont state i cant roll dps trinkets as healer, its fair to presume if the leader dosent state it in the beginning, im allowed to roll for CTS then as healer ? Its stats are beneficial to all healers and i would totally use it on gearing stage as its easier to get and far supperior to most trinkets i even can get on early gear.
Atleast i know to set up rules at the start of every raid now.
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Moderator
The only default rules are the ones in the thread you linked.
"What qualifies as ninja?
- Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use.
- In RDF needing on items for Off-Spec (unless everyone in party is explictly fine with this).
- Need rolling for other players to have 2 or more roll chances at one item.
- Kicking players from raid for no reason, especially before distributing loot from boss kill that they participated in.
- Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket).
- Changing looting rules during the raid, after it has started.Example: You joined a raid that was being advertised as one with no reserved items and after first boss raid leader says that he reserves item x from last boss.
- Player exploiting game bug to bypass master loot."
So, unless the specific rules for a raid state otherwise, like "Main Spec over Off-Spec" or something else that would limit it, the only thing that would stop your example of rolling for a DD trinket as a healer is your character being unable to equip it.
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Member
Well thats very very bad but im very glad i got that cleared up, honestly i should have been banned years ago. Dont know a single scenario where i gave a dps trinket to a healer.
Thanks alot!
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Moderator
Why is it bad? The rules are just a very basic template, it's the raid leader's responsibility to personalize how they want their own rules to be. If we had enforced "MS > OS" we would effectively be denying the community the option to simply make a run with free-for-all loot.
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Member
Well bad in a sense that i can now be a complete *** and go report most pug raid leads if i win rolls on random items, as there are very few pug raids where loot rules are cleared out. Not that it would benefit me anyway, as i still dont get the item. And not that i feel the leader would even deserve it but i could if my conscious would allow me. We just had a discussion in the guild of how we need to me more clear with pug players about the loot rules in the future which felt utterly not needed before i knew all this.
But then you are right, it does give more freedom to how you form your raids and its in the end up to u how to form loot rules.
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Forum Veteran
Probably because the preset ninja rule leaves a lot of room for dicks to be dicks in PUG's. Yes, it's better than nothing, and probably the best we'll ever get. Sadly it only affects basic level of MS>OS between tank, dps and healer. For tanks it's fine and easy. only stat that makes it or breaks it as dps/healer item is hit. RL's would need to write an essay long rules (and others should read it), to have even basic level of "common sense" level rules for each raid.
It just leaves RL's with ****ton of extra responsibilities while running PUG's. On one hand they want to make sure they don't get reported while following their own set of rules. And on the other they have to make rules so that people find them acceptable, and that he can keep people happy and troll proof. Make a mistake and pay for it dearly.
"Akschually you did not mention on clause 2 section 4 line 3 that Holy Paladins can roll MS on https://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50694. So that Holy Paladin can't roll MS on them, thus the item belongs to me. He he hee, I am special, my mother always said so!".
TLDR: Guild > PUG 100:1
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