I make raids very often, and recenty in my raid a shadow priest has rolled on ,,Dislodged foreign object'' . But that priest allready had better trinkets. He had the ,,Muradin spyglass'' on HC, and the Ruby Sanctum scale for haste. I decided to give the item to a diferent player. He was overgeared , yet he rolled on an item that he does not need. Now i am unable to lead any more raids for you guys, beucase of that toxic player and his report, I am now banned for 2 months. So my question stays. IF a guy has better stronger items, can he still MS roll on weaker items or items wtih the same gs ? For example a player has 4 set and he rolls on another tier item ? Do i get banned if i give him the item ? or do I get banned for not giving him the item ? Or a players has a HC 25 man 2 handed weapon but rolls on a NORMAL weapon. Are all players allowed to rool items that they can use no matter if they are overgeared or not ?? Where is the red line ?
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Member
Is it allowed for overgeared players to roll items with the same gs and power ?
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Member
The problem is with the premise of the question, is DFO worse for the spriest than Muradins HC? Afaik DFO normal ranks higher in DPS than Muradins would even on heroic.
So in this case, you're asking if you're allowed to give the item to someone else if you personally believe that the winner doesn't need it. That is a totally different question.
If you're able to justify why you gave it to someone else, when you're talking about gear, you'll better be ready to justify to absolutely.
Gearscore doesn't matter, itemlevel doesn't matter, even to some extent, a "bis list" shouldn't matter as a priority tool for gear either.
If a person believes that the item they're rolling for is better for them in their current status, they're allowed to do so. If you disagree and give it to someone else, then you'll carry the responsibility of the decision. They might report you, as they believe to be in the right, and then you'll have to absolutely, with no uncertainty be able to justify your decision. And your decision will be held to higher scrutiny than his decision to roll on the item.
Tldr; You believe you did the right thing, I believe numbers would disagree with you, either way close call situations - just give the item to the winner, it's hard to justify your decisions even if you'd be technically in the right.
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Forum Veteran
What you just did is called "Loot Council" where you decide who should get which item based on your judgment.
If you have advertised that loot distribution is done this way, then, sure, they signed up for it and agreed to it.
I haven't PUGed ICC in a long time, but I recall it's always BIS>MS>OS as priority, and any deviation has to be stated clearly before the raid starts so people have a choice to agree to it or leave.
Going back to DFO, it's not BIS for both of them, but that'll mean they share equal claim to it since it's simply Main Spec. I'd even argue from the better geared Shadow Priest's perspective, I came in with better gear, carried with higher DPS, only to be "rewarded" by not being allowed to get an item that's my MS and a small upgrade over Muradin Spyglass? It would be a slap to the face to be not allowed to bid. It's still up to RNG whoever wins so there's a fair chance.
If you really want to practice Loot Council, you can always form your own guild or a community that shares your thoughts and wishes to play with this method of loot distribution.
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Member
Well sadly for you even DFO normal is upgrade from Spyglass HC. He won fair and square, he wasnt being toxic at all for reporting you, i believe everyone in his place would do the same thing. Item level and gearscore of the item doesnt matter at all as long as its an upgrade over the current item and dps increase, some palas would be better with plate hands, some with mail hands, others would use mail waist and some will play with leather waist, and all of those are same item level.
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Forum Veteran
It's not overgeared when you compare Muradin's Spyglass from 10hc and DFO from 25n ilvl's, as both are 264. Which one is better would largely depend on player's current itemization. Although some list would suggest one is better over another, but that list isn't made according to random user's random gear.
I would/could see it being an issue if the spriest had PNL HC and CTS N, where both have higher ilvl than DFO.
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Member
Shadow priests use crit as well as haste. Overstacking on haste does not make the priest stronger, it jsut makes you cast more often and when yo umiss a cast you even lose dps. It is redicilous to suggest that ,,Dislodged foreing object'' can improve his dps. And it is a fact that he had at least the same GS and stats that he uses. And even if does increse his DPS, it would be so little, that this severe punishmet does not match it at all. We should be promoting raid leaders not punishing them in the name of toxic players. And yes the player IS in fact toxic if he is willing to destroy an account with 10 heros for nothing. He is compleatly selfish, toxic and hostile, no two ways about it. I don't know if you have noticed, but raids are so few theese days, and they are getting less and less. Is that how we support raid leaders ?
Edited: 1 Week Ago
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Moderator
GS isn't taken into consideration, nor how much you might believe it could increase his damage or not.
The player wasn't "toxic" in any way for reporting you, as every player has the right to make one if they believe they were wronged. How many characters your account has is irrelevant, he wasn't "selfish, toxic or hostile," he reported what he saw as wrong distribution of loot - and he was right. This should go without saying when you were found guilty by the GMs.
Raid Leaders are players like anyone else, subject to the same rules. They don't require or deserve any sort of special "promoting" or "supporting."
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Member
Yes, they use crit aswell but you also need to reach haste soft cap before going for crit. Not saying that he didnt reached haste cap without dfo but its still an upgrade since muradin will proc for 200 spellpower for 10 seconds but dfo can proc much more spellpower for 20 seconds.
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Forum Veteran
Your mistake was thinking that DFO was equal to or worse than MS. You were wrong, and that's why you were banned. Sucks but it's best to move on.
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Member
Ok, maybe DFO might be slightly better then the crit trinket, even tho it dosn't make any sense. The shadow priest uses crit as well, he has talents for that, the crit trinket from gunship on HC should give him allmost the same power. Maybe he could get a very small improvemet, like 20 more Damage per secound. Tell me now, do i deserve to lose my BIS paladin, my almost bis secound paladin, and 12 more heros, because one player lost 20 dps ? He knew what would happen to me, when he made that ticket. You can vilanize me for this 20 damage per secound that i miscalculated, but again, the only reason why I didn't give him the damn trinket, is because I thought, that he allready had the same or even more powerfull trinket. I followed the rules. This was clearly a miscalculation, there was no intent to ninja anithing. I make many raids. Mistakes happen. And this mistake was clearly very small, considering the extremly small improvement that the preist gets from changing his HC spyglass to a normal DFO. The punshiment is hugely disproportionate. I just want to lead raids i don't want to ninja, this was a miscalculation, and a very small one at that.
I want to apolagize for being emotional about this, but i have jsut lost huge number of heros, I am getting vilanized, and the only thing that i want to do is just make raids for you guys. If you vilanize and ban me, who will make the raids, there are almost no raid leaders left guys. Please don't vilanize me. I am not toalking to the GMs, I am talking to the community, if we want to keep the spirit of WOW, vilanizing and toxicity has to end. I made this tread becuase i wanted to know where i miscalculated. This is not a ban apeal, i did not made this to skip my 5 days wait for ansver on the ban apeal. I will wait my 5 days that is ok. I just wanted to find out where i am wrong, becuase when i made the choice to deny him the trinket, i thought that this was right, i did not think that this might be considered ninjing.Edited: 1 Week Ago
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Forum Veteran
Noone made you villain. You didn't lost your characters, just account being suspended from playing.
Doesn't matternif it is 20 or 200 or even 2000 DPS improvement. You've denied player his upgrade that he won fair according to established loot system.
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Member
Unknowingly. It was not obvious that he has an upgrade. Priest uses crit as well as haste. I did not know that. I did not make that intentionally. The punishment for ninjing assumes that you have intent. I did not have intent, therefore the punishmet should be much less severe.
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Forum Veteran
Thinking this you are making yet another mistake.
Once again, move on.
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Moderator
The punishment for Ninja is based on the fact someone got loot they weren't supposed to. Intention doesn't erase the fact, and intention isn't something that can be proven. You got the exact punishment anyone doing the same would receive, period. There are no "less severe" versions of a Ninja Looting ban. All that can happen is Support decides to give you a second chance. Hopefully, for you, you didn't use the same tone as in this thread on your appeal.
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Member
Obnoxious I am so sorry for wasting your time, I did not Intend this topic to be a semi ban apeal. I am changing the subject. Let me explain why I made this topic. I had similar case. A raid leader once had to decide about one agility item (lether bracer Tox's maximized wristguard). A hunter rolled on the bracer, but the rogue said that this bracer is not for hunter, since hunters use agility bracer with intellect. yet hunter also uses agility. Let's asume the hunter wins the roll . Can the leader decide to give the bracer to the rog, ot should he give it to the hunter ? We are talking about default rules. So i ask the comunity what should a raid leader do in that situation ?
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