Is my friend a ninja ?

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January 23, 2022
Calfinator

Is my friend a ninja ?

Hi guys, my friend got banned for 5 Days.

For Ninja Looting in a Dungeon.

And I want to know if everything is going right here.

We are a group of friends who play for many years here, oldest account from 2013 and we never break any rules.
My friend now play a DK Tank, we just spam RDF Hc at after we come home from work for fun.
He is tanking with the "Dungeon Hero" Build and mostly dps Gear like t9 Set. But hes easy to heal and all works fine.

The Situation:
He was Tank in the Dunegon FOS HC with 4 random players, he was again in DPS Gear and aksed heal if that is ok after first groups and heal told him all fine "ez peez to heal you". The heal was in group with a rogue.
They done the Dungeon fast without any deaths and my friend was tank and top Dps at the same time. while the Rog dps even had better gear.

At the End of the Dungeon the crit trinket drop, the heal roll first need my friend also roll need, the rogue also roll need. My friend won the trinket by roll, his old trinket was 150gs the new over 200 so it was a clear upgrade for him.
For the Rogue the Trinket was a smaller upgrade than for him.

Now the rogue told him he screenshot this and he will get ban and the item removed if my friend not instant give the item to the rogue. So my friend put on him on ignore list cause he think he did nothing wrong.

He not even care that bad about the Item and if the rogue just nice asked he would have give it to him. He even pass away DK gear to other dk in past VOA cause the other DK was a friendly guy and wrote something fun when he lost the roll xD

He is a very friendly Player and he always help new players and he never break any rules before and if he break a rule here now he did not know, I can put my hand in the fire for that.

Shouldn't every player be allowed to play their class however they want?

He use the Item for the specc he play at the time he won it, and not sell it or disenchant it. And it was a clear upgrade for him and he won it by fair roll, is he a Ninja?

Server: Icecrown
Time: Around 1 Day ago
January 23, 2022
OhieMitzen

All that wall of text to say: Is my friend ninja, if he is tank in RDF, and rolls need on DPS item?

Your friend was tank, not DPS. The trinket is for DPS, not tank. Rogue is DPS. Healer is not DPS. Rogue was only one MS, and your friend did ninja.

Yes, your friend did ninja.
January 23, 2022
Obnoxious

Unless I misunderstood something, you're saying that he joined in the role of a Tank, but rolled for gear not useful for a Tank, and that's what got him banned. He can play his class however he wants, but he will roll Need on gear for the role he took.
January 23, 2022
Calfinator

When a Titanium Lockbox drop and a rogue is in group is that ninja here when i roll need?
Jokes aside....

The RULE is: In RDF needing on items for Off-Spec is ninja
He is using the Item for Tanking he not use it for offspecc. so he did not ninja it was a upgrade for his specc not offspecc. If you read the rules you will find it.

The item is a nice upgrade for his build also with the t9 set he use cause of the crit.

Why you not remove the Option to roll need for a other class for these items in dungeons?

Or add a Info, "this item is not considered good for your specc from the Staff you are allowed to roll need but you will get banned for 5 days"

What about his friend heal also roll need first? can we get him banned too? Or only if you roll need AND win?

Also if this is really the situation here, you can get so many players each day banned just run rdf hc take screenshoots.

And so me and my friends know for the future pls anwser this:

What is if a cloth shoulder with spirit drop in a random dungeon and its 2 gs upgrade for my priest and 80gs upgrade for a random lock and the lock roll need i can easy get him banned?

And how long you can report a player for ninja in a Dungeon?, some of us stream and we have a few 100 hours of gameplay and a few 100 "ninjas" from Dunegons to report he just skip through 12 hours if Video and found 4 "Ninja" lol

can you turn in big videos with time stamps for report ninja?
January 23, 2022
OhieMitzen

NES isn't useful for tank role in RDF, which your friend filled.

His build / spec doesn't make him an exception to rules. A tank can be full DPS geared ArP prot Warrior, but he is still filling tank role (if queued as such). So he SHOULD roll for the matching ROLE, not some niche spec of his if it goes against the general MS > OS.

Adding "good/bad for spec" for thousands of items? No, please no.

In the case of ninja, the one who wins the item, would be the one who ninja it (IF healer won NES, he could be reported, and thus banned).

Spirit isn't only good for priests (and heals), so without giving proper example, I wouldn't. Then again, I'm not the one making these calls.
January 23, 2022
Drunkuser

On a side note, It's hilarious how serious ninja in rdf is taken judging by the tons of topics each day pop out about that, it must take a lot of time from the staff work, why there is not the same swift justice against scripters in arena?

Since the ladder is plagued by them, and with match ID should be quite easy to get rid of them in few days, not at the end of the season when the damage is done.
January 23, 2022
Disktrasa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfinator

When a Titanium Lockbox drop and a rogue is in group is that ninja here when i roll need?
Jokes aside....

The RULE is: In RDF needing on items for Off-Spec is ninja
He is using the Item for Tanking he not use it for offspecc. so he did not ninja it was a upgrade for his specc not offspecc. If you read the rules you will find it.

What about his friend heal also roll need first? can we get him banned too? Or only if you roll need AND win?

Also if this is really the situation here, you can get so many players each day banned just run rdf hc take screenshoots.

What is if a cloth shoulder with spirit drop in a random dungeon and its 2 gs upgrade for my priest and 80gs upgrade for a random lock and the lock roll need i can easy get him banned?

And how long you can report a player for ninja in a Dungeon?, some of us stream and we have a few 100 hours of gameplay and a few 100 "ninjas" from Dunegons to report he just skip through 12 hours if Video and found 4 "Ninja" lol

can you turn in big videos with time stamps for report ninja?

Titanium lockboxes are ok for all to need roll on according to warmane staff.

It dosent matter if the trinket is uppgrade for him since it's a DPS trinket and hes Tanking, he can only roll for tank items.

Only the person who wins the item will get banned for ninja not everyone who rolls, so if ANYONE ever need rolls smth and you se they try to ninja don't need roll to help your friend who actually needs because that can get you banned (if anyone printscreens you, you can appeal but it will take time).

You can make a lot of reports every day banning tons of people if you want to yes.

Spirit items does not mean it's a healer item, only 2 stats in game, Mana per second and Hit rating classifies as Healer / DPS items (with the exception of holy paladin legs from icc).

You can stream and try that, I did stream ninjas 2 times and even after I repeated 2 times in report "at 1 hour 14 mins and 30 seconds leader ninja item" he still asked for what time in stream "cause I can't watch all 3 hours" so don't get your hopes up, I gave up trying to post streams after 4 tries with no result, seems printscreens is the preffered way.

Long story short, RDF is where almost everyone gets banned for ninja, raids have a lot of different rules which can change dependent on which raid you join, Basicly a leader could say "LFM ICC every item ress" and take every single item in raid and it's not ninja, it's your choise to join that raid.
January 23, 2022
Thorbjorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disktrasa

Titanium lockboxes are ok for all to need roll on according to warmane staff.

Heh, on the other hand, a GM that I asked via a ticket told ME that only rogues are allowed to need on lockboxes.
January 23, 2022
Persivaln

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorbjorn

Heh, on the other hand, a GM that I asked via a ticket told ME that only rogues are allowed to need on lockboxes.

Well, we had several cases brought up to daylight this year, and IIRC (not claiming it is 100% true) Obnoxious validated that lockboxes are FFA loot, since we can have either BS or rogue toon to open it or pay some tip for trade service, while rdf loot is BoP and is not shareable
January 23, 2022
starscream2413

To be honest this is why I hate random dungeon finders when gearing up. People tend to roll on dps and healer items if its on bigger ''gearscore''. Even if it has damage or spellpower, the tank or healer will need on it because it has better gearscore yeeee.

Hilarious.
January 23, 2022
sxgt

IMO if you have the "need" icon available to click, its fair game to click it. If you think its Is it a jerk move? sure ! if its an issue you can go Master Looter. Ninja to me, now this is coming from a guy that has played since 2007.....Ninja looting is when you you leave group and attack boss first or manipulate the looting in a way that only the ninja can get the looted items. I am sure its fixed now but at one time you could attack boss first, do the fight like normal, and leave group at 1% and then only you could loot the boss. Also a Ninja looter would be considered a leader that sets group to ML and takes everything and leaves. Ninja was never a term used for someone who rolled on something they didnt need. BUT thats my perspective from years past, I dont know how Warmane technically defines it, never looked because I am a nice guy.
January 23, 2022
Ikkle

Heh, this actually reminds me of one of my dungeons.

It's been a while since I've played WoW and I was running rdf hc's and a weapon dropped, it was a huge upgrade to my old weapon meant for level 78's while I was level 80. It didn't have spirit and gave hit, so I felt it would of better fit boomie but I play resto - But it was too big of an upgrade to just let it go, so I selected need and won it, I won it over a mage - But they never said anything. I didn't think anything of it at the time. I was just happy about a huge boost in healing power and stats.

But now reading this... Did I ninja that staff in a way that it could get me banned?

While I feel the 'hit' part of the staff is more of a dps stat - It does also help me still.

I feel the ninja looting rule is pretty weird, and never knew it was so strict - Obviously, if I'm a ret paladin I would never need on something which gave me defensive stats, or a staff which gave me agility on my rdudu.. But a staff without spirit - Is it for me or is it not?

Being so strict on this rule I feel is unfair - Do new players / old returning players need to google every drop to make sure they won't be banned for trying to upgrade their character..

--

I'd call someone a ninja who is needing everything just so they win it. Not someone who needed something they actually need. If it's an upgrade over the current piece of equipment and you have the need option available, then I'd expect the person to click need so they can become stronger.

A few times I've been running dungeons where a somebody has needed items before and I inspect them a couple minutes after and they either already have a better item or an item at the same level and never actually equip the item they won with a need role - Now that's what I'd define as a ninja.
January 24, 2022
Calfinator

I have to say that with the "report everyone from stream who ninja" I exaggerate a bit

Of course we won't report everyone who has "ninja" in our groups, for us its ok. I was angry and i wanted to point put that these ninja rules are really hard.
Im happy if a other player is really happy for a item even if its a little upgrade for me. Especially if it's just an item from a dungeon that I can farm again the next day.

I want to give an Update to the Situation.
My friend has been unbanned today i dont know why he is at work and we could not talk^^

I think cause he really use the item he rolled for and it was a upgrade for him, or maybe cause he never break any rule in past 9 years of warmane. And he is using the item for his main specc, its not like he roll on mp5 item need for dk.
Also there was a note he wont be unbanned next time and he should clearly read the rules. Also his Account is no longer "In good standing" and he get less vote points.
This is just information for you guys and not a complaint

But i also want to add we didn't know about these hard rules and will be careful about what we roll in the future.

We really just want a nice experience for everyone we play with, unless they're downright angry or toxic.

And like i said before if the rogue just nice asked he would have got the trinket in that moment.
But he immediately threatened ban and called him a ninja, while also the heal druid rolled first need for the trinket.

Also we will seek out the rogue now and help him farm his trinket or a better trinket for his toon and maybe we can have a talk together.

We all will ask in the future if it is ok to roll need before we do it in random dungeon groups

At the end I have to apologize for my bad English, I'm an old girl and it's been a long time since school xD

Now you wont see me again in Forum, have a nice day and good loot.
January 24, 2022
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfinator

My friend has been unbanned today i dont know why he is at work and we could not talk^^

I think cause he really use the item he rolled for and it was a upgrade for him, or maybe cause he never break any rule in past 9 years of warmane. And he is using the item for his main specc, its not like he roll on mp5 item need for dk.
Also there was a note he wont be unbanned next time and he should clearly read the rules. Also his Account is no longer "In good standing" and he get less vote points.

I find it quite odd to have played with us for nine years and to have no clue about some of our rules that have been in use for many of those years, but anyway... no, he wasn't unbanned because it was an upgrade or because he's using it, he was given a second chance since it was a first time and he probably wrote a polite appeal. That's why it came with the warning that he won't get such a ban lifted earlier if something happens again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfinator

We all will ask in the future if it is ok to roll need before we do it in random dungeon groups

Just make sure everyone agrees and screenshot it if you go that way. Don't assume someone not answering means they agreed. If even one person doesn't clear and openly agrees, they could still open a report. The safest way is still to just stick to using Need on gear that's appropriate for the role you queued for.