Best race for Hunter PvE/PvP

Hello everyone, I'm new to wotlk and I would like to roll a hunter with my friends, but before that, I have a question.

Which race is the best for a beginner hunter? (ally/horde)

Ally - go Nightelf because of shadowmeld. It will remove all combat and make you go stealth. Pretty useful. It is like two fake death abilities.
2) Or go Draenai if you want that extra 1+ hit rating for raids + less gems needed for hit + and you have a single target heal which can be useful.

Horde - Orc since your pets do more damage and you get nice buffs or troll because of specialization and berserker buff. Others are meh.

Not a dwarf because of the stoneskin? (i'm trying a dwarf hunter atm :P)

Greetings,


Ramm.

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Originally Posted by Overloard99

Ally - go Nightelf because of shadowmeld. It will remove all combat and make you go stealth. Pretty useful. It is like two fake death abilities.
2) Or go Draenai if you want that extra 1+ hit rating for raids + less gems needed for hit + and you have a single target heal which can be useful.

Horde - Orc since your pets do more damage and you get nice buffs or troll because of specialization and berserker buff. Others are meh.

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1st- unless you pvp, nightelf is useless in pve, shadowmeld has no use in icc other than melding an ice tomb in p3, overall best for ally pve -> draenei,
2nd- horde; orc pet dmg is ****ing useless because your pet does barely 8% of your total dmg, boosting 8% by 5% is literally like 0.005% dps increase overall
now the question between orc and troll, orc has straight up AP buff which is nice, troll has 20% AS and CS increase buff which is also nice especially during attack speed/casting speed downtime in pve, but ur attack speed gets DR'd hard when going super low, so proc'ing it on pulls wouldnt make you get the full benefit, especially with hero, haste pots, and rapid fire, so straight up AP comes ahead for pve,

now pvp: ally -> nightelf no questions asked, shadowmeled is a 2nd target dropper which is op and can prevent you from getting bursted or cc'd
horde -> theyre all about equal but tauren/orc/belf are tops because of the utility they provide.

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Originally Posted by Rammillius

Not a dwarf because of the stoneskin? (i'm trying a dwarf hunter atm :P)

Greetings,


Ramm.

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Dwarf with stoneskin is only useful if you play pvp against dk's, and any other class that has bleeds. Mostly as a rouge dwarf but hunter is OK.

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Originally Posted by Overloard99

Dwarf with stoneskin is only useful if you play pvp against dk's, and any other class that has bleeds. Mostly as a rouge dwarf but hunter is OK.

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not as good as a nightelf in pvp. dropping target completely is way too good compared to a bleed remover.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

1st- unless you pvp, nightelf is useless in pve, shadowmeld has no use in icc other than melding an ice tomb in p3, overall best for ally pve -> draenei,
2nd- horde; orc pet dmg is ****ing useless because your pet does barely 8% of your total dmg, boosting 8% by 5% is literally like 0.005% dps increase overall
now the question between orc and troll, orc has straight up AP buff which is nice, troll has 20% AS and CS increase buff which is also nice especially during attack speed/casting speed downtime in pve, but ur attack speed gets DR'd hard when going super low, so proc'ing it on pulls wouldnt make you get the full benefit, especially with hero, haste pots, and rapid fire, so straight up AP comes ahead for pve,

now pvp: ally -> nightelf no questions asked, shadowmeled is a 2nd target dropper which is op and can prevent you from getting bursted or cc'd
horde -> theyre all about equal but tauren/orc/belf are tops because of the utility they provide.

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Night Elf isn't useless in PvE. You can shadowmeld several mechanics in ICC alone: Ice block in final phase of heroic Sindragosa, shadow flames on BQL, mind control on LDW, among others. It's also a great way to ensure you don't die during a wipe when feign death alone wont suffice.

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Originally Posted by SupaKaiser

Night Elf isn't useless in PvE. You can shadowmeld several mechanics in ICC alone: Ice block in final phase of heroic Sindragosa, shadow flames on BQL, mind control on LDW, among others. It's also a great way to ensure you don't die during a wipe when feign death alone wont suffice.

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the only mechanic where shadowmeld has an actual use as a hunter is shadowmelding ice tombs on sindy p3, and if you need to do that to kill the boss, its a raid problem, 2nd- if you know how to play hunter on bql you almost lose no dmg on swarming ( you stay in melee range to trap and just walk slowly while still using abilities then disengage back in melee) , for mc on ldw if your guild has the smallest brain they should be cc'ing you anyway and you should be using unequip macros, plus using shadowmeld doesnt completely remove 1 mc, it only will mc someone else, yet you benefit from literally nothing, and shadowmeld dont do anything that feign death wont do, please stop saying useless ****, just play a draenei and provide your raid wtih a huge dps increase by providing 1% hit. thanks :)

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Originally Posted by SupaKaiser

Night Elf isn't useless in PvE. You can shadowmeld several mechanics in ICC alone: Ice block in final phase of heroic Sindragosa, shadow flames on BQL, mind control on LDW, among others. It's also a great way to ensure you don't die during a wipe when feign death alone wont suffice.

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and also to add up, why would u even care about staying alive on a wipe, ur raid will rebuff anyway, all you do is save what 8 gold on repairs, just go die and reset your hero/lust debuff, 1% hit way more useful than anything.

Nightelf has more passive agility than Draenei BUT you'll have to gem more hit meaning you actually lose around 30 agility. Draenei is by far the only viable end-game race on alliance.

If you're playing a Night Elf hunter and ask for a draenei in your group you're the reason PvE on alliance is doing so poorly.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

the only mechanic where shadowmeld has an actual use as a hunter is shadowmelding ice tombs on sindy p3, and if you need to do that to kill the boss, its a raid problem, 2nd- if you know how to play hunter on bql you almost lose no dmg on swarming ( you stay in melee range to trap and just walk slowly while still using abilities then disengage back in melee)

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1) Preventing an MC on LDW heroic
2) Negating a use of 1 DI + brez on Saurfang heroic by dodging mark
3) Negating the need to run around with flames (yes you can still do most of your DPS while moving) & leaving flames on the field on BQL heroic by dodging swarming shadows
4) Preventing yourself from being incapacitated (not DPSing) on Sindy heroic due to tombs, possibly prevent a loss of raid DPS depending on what tomb you decide to do it with

Possibly other things not on the top of my head atm

Shadowmelding swarming shadows on BQL is a raw DPS increase as well, same as shadowmelding Saurfang mark (saves a DI + brez). I wasn't arguing that you need shadowmeld in order to skip mechanics in order to kill a boss, it just helps reduce pressure on the raid in general is all.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

for mc on ldw if your guild has the smallest brain they should be cc'ing you anyway and you should be using unequip macros, plus using shadowmeld doesnt completely remove 1 mc, it only will mc someone else, yet you benefit from literally nothing

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I've personally dodged LDW mind controls as Night elf. It doesn't MC another person, you only get 2 if 1 person melds it. No need for unequip macros anymore with the latest DBM, it auto-unequips anyone who will be MC'd (only the 3 people 'targeted' will be auto-unequipped).

https://pastebin.com/raw/r2jXfj5L

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

and shadowmeld dont do anything that feign death wont do, please stop saying useless ****, just play a draenei and provide your raid wtih a huge dps increase by providing 1% hit. thanks :)

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That's not true. It literally causes you to dodge any targetted mechanic where as feign death is just an aggro dump. They work similarly but fundamentally different.

1% hit from Draenei is great! It helps a lot! Not taking away from that, but dismissing Night Elf's utility is ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Sprotess

Nightelf has more passive agility than Draenei BUT you'll have to gem more hit meaning you actually lose around 30 agility. Draenei is by far the only viable end-game race on alliance.

If you're playing a Night Elf hunter and ask for a draenei in your group you're the reason PvE on alliance is doing so poorly.

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The stats get messy when you're gemming as a Draenei hunter:

Draenei w/ +34 hit gem and 2/3 Focused Aim = 8% hit (but also worse knockback on SS cast)
Draenei w/o +34 hit gem + 3/3 Focused Aim = 7.96% hit
Draenei w/ agi+hit gem + 3/3 Focused Aim = 8.27% hit


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TL;DR Shadowmeld is underrated. Both Night Elf and Draenei are solid options for different reasons. Can't go wrong with 1% hit for your group. Also, last time I checked, Gift of the Naaru isnt scaling properly with attack power :( hope they fix that tbh, I love the idea of that heal.

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Originally Posted by SupaKaiser

1) Preventing an MC on LDW heroic
2) Negating a use of 1 DI + brez on Saurfang heroic by dodging mark
3) Negating the need to run around with flames (yes you can still do most of your DPS while moving) & leaving flames on the field on BQL heroic by dodging swarming shadows
4) Preventing yourself from being incapacitated (not DPSing) on Sindy heroic due to tombs, possibly prevent a loss of raid DPS depending on what tomb you decide to do it with

Possibly other things not on the top of my head atm

Shadowmelding swarming shadows on BQL is a raw DPS increase as well, same as shadowmelding Saurfang mark (saves a DI + brez). I wasn't arguing that you need shadowmeld in order to skip mechanics in order to kill a boss, it just helps reduce pressure on the raid in general is all.



I've personally dodged LDW mind controls as Night elf. It doesn't MC another person, you only get 2 if 1 person melds it. No need for unequip macros anymore with the latest DBM, it auto-unequips anyone who will be MC'd (only the 3 people 'targeted' will be auto-unequipped).

https://pastebin.com/raw/r2jXfj5L



That's not true. It literally causes you to dodge any targetted mechanic where as feign death is just an aggro dump. They work similarly but fundamentally different.

1% hit from Draenei is great! It helps a lot! Not taking away from that, but dismissing Night Elf's utility is ignorant.



The stats get messy when you're gemming as a Draenei hunter:

Draenei w/ +34 hit gem and 2/3 Focused Aim = 8% hit (but also worse knockback on SS cast)
Draenei w/o +34 hit gem + 3/3 Focused Aim = 7.96% hit
Draenei w/ agi+hit gem + 3/3 Focused Aim = 8.27% hit


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TL;DR Shadowmeld is underrated. Both Night Elf and Draenei are solid options for different reasons. Can't go wrong with 1% hit for your group. Also, last time I checked, Gift of the Naaru isnt scaling properly with attack power :( hope they fix that tbh, I love the idea of that heal.

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ok so here we go again, 1- hit rating will provide a way bigger dps boost overall to your raid than ANY MECHANIC that you can dodge by using shadowmeld (unless u dodge swarmings while having bite) , 2- if u need shadowmeld for your raid to survive and kill a boss by skipping an MC, Swarming or sindy p3 tomb, you just have a **** raid, on the end game raids you wont need to skip easy *** mechanics to kill a boss, 3- on sindy, yeah u can meld p3 tomb, but on a fully bis raid, youll kill the ****ing boss any ****ing way so who cares about your dps for 6-10 seconds, thats barely a second more to your raid to fill your dmg done, 4- yeah the latest dbm does it, but not everyone uses dbm, alot of people use bigwigs and dxe, you still need macros or equipment manager, 5- feign death doesnt dodge mechanics, but even if i had shadowmeld i dont see any usage i wouldve used it for in my entire time playing hunter in icc other than to dodge swarming (and swarming can be delt with as a hunter with almost literal no dps loss if you know how to move and shoot) or MC, dbs mark isnt even a question, if u need to meld mark for your raid to be able to kill dbs on an end game guild, ur guild sucks ***, 6- draenei is the biggest raid dps increase race, just use it, and for the draenei hit rating, it is so insignificant, the only 2 solutions are either going 3.96 or 4.27 ( i myself use 4.27 because i prefer never missing a killshot/tranq shot than 10 crit rating. u can run 3.96 and still do the same as 4.27 meaning you gemmed 0 hit rating, so hit is irrelevant for draenei's, running anything than 3/3 focused aim is straight up a dps loss due to the pushback, even with imp conc on 2/3 focused aim youll still be at around 5% pushback which is just a dps loss, idk why anyone would do this at bis. so here is my TLDR: 1% hit rating will improve your overall raids dps by way bigger than you having the CHANCE of skipping 1 mechanic who takes 5-6 seconds. and yes it is a chance, if you dont get that mechanic, your shadowmeld is useless. just play a draenei, and do the mechanics right. :)

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

ok so here we go again, 1- hit rating will provide a way bigger dps boost overall to your raid than ANY MECHANIC that you can dodge by using shadowmeld (unless u dodge swarmings while having bite)

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I'm not disagreeing with you here.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

2- if u need shadowmeld for your raid to survive and kill a boss by skipping an MC, Swarming or sindy p3 tomb, you just have a **** raid, on the end game raids you wont need to skip easy *** mechanics to kill a boss

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Again, not disagreeing with you. I think you're misunderstanding my argument.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

3- on sindy, yeah u can meld p3 tomb, but on a fully bis raid, youll kill the ****ing boss any ****ing way so who cares about your dps for 6-10 seconds, thats barely a second more to your raid to fill your dmg done

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Again: Not disagreeing with you.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

4- yeah the latest dbm does it, but not everyone uses dbm, alot of people use bigwigs and dxe, you still need macros or equipment manager

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Moot.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

5- feign death doesnt dodge mechanics, but even if i had shadowmeld i dont see any usage i wouldve used it for in my entire time playing hunter in icc other than to dodge swarming (and swarming can be delt with as a hunter with almost literal no dps loss if you know how to move and shoot) or MC, dbs mark isnt even a question, if u need to meld mark for your raid to be able to kill dbs on an end game guild, ur guild sucks ***

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I don't know why you keep thinking I'm arguing that shadowmeld is necessary to kill bosses.

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

6- draenei is the biggest raid dps increase race, just use it, and for the draenei hit rating, it is so insignificant, the only 2 solutions are either going 3.96 or 4.27 ( i myself use 4.27 because i prefer never missing a killshot/tranq shot than 10 crit rating. u can run 3.96 and still do the same as 4.27 meaning you gemmed 0 hit rating, so hit is irrelevant for draenei's, running anything than 3/3 focused aim is straight up a dps loss due to the pushback, even with imp conc on 2/3 focused aim youll still be at around 5% pushback which is just a dps loss, idk why anyone would do this at bis. so here is my TLDR: 1% hit rating will improve your overall raids dps by way bigger than you having the CHANCE of skipping 1 mechanic who takes 5-6 seconds. and yes it is a chance, if you dont get that mechanic, your shadowmeld is useless. just play a draenei, and do the mechanics right. :)

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I'm glad we're in agreement.

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Originally Posted by SupaKaiser

I'm not disagreeing with you here.




Again, not disagreeing with you. I think you're misunderstanding my argument.



Again: Not disagreeing with you.



Moot.




I don't know why you keep thinking I'm arguing that shadowmeld is necessary to kill bosses.



I'm glad we're in agreement.

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by saying irrelevant im talking about which hit spec you decide to go with, not the racial.

is troll outdps orc?