DISCUSSION: The new Honor System

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malaco

We think transmog and the armor that you wear shows who you are and we didn’t want to make something that easily gets changed or thrown away, we want you to play and achieve and that the items you wear show your effort. If we were to award players that benefited from our older systems it would be the opposite of what we want to do and that is to motivate everyone, both the casual 1500 player and the top rated players, to play and fight for what they think describes them best.

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Who got motivated to farm honor for transmogs now? Let's take a look at how motivating it REALLY is. Let's start by looking at the formula.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malaco

How do i obtain honor?
Honor is obtained in Arenas and Battlegrounds.
The honor points resets every monday 06.00 server time
Calculations:
Arena win: 0,135 x RATING = Honor per win
Arena lose: 0,045 x RATING = Honor per lose
BG win: 400
BG lose: 100

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Interesting formula. Let's do a few test-runs with it!

An average player likes to transmog these slots at least:

Head, shoulder, chest, legs, feet, belt and weapons. That's between 7 - 10 slots depending on what class/specc you run (eg. 1 weapon, 2 weapons, 2 weapons + shield, 3 weapons + shield (such as fury warrior)).

Testrun 1.

A player who likes to do 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ and is stuck at 1500 rating. Let's assume he still magically wins every game and give him the highest possible honor for a game. Even though we all know this isn't the case and this example already favors the players' honor gain massively.

0,135 x 1500 = ~200 honor per game.

20.000 honor for 1 slot.

20.000 / 200 = 100 games for 1 item slot.

100 games at 1500 x 7-10 slots = 700-1000 games for for 1 full transmog set at 1500 rating.

Better not mistake the transmogs you choose!

Testrun 2.

A player who likes to do 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ and is thriving at the highest rating. Let's take a look how it is at the top of 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ at this point, the end phase of the season with roughly 1 more month to go.

2V2 LADDER STATUS:
http://oi60.tinypic.com/11ipph3.jpg

3V3 LADDER STATUS:
http://oi62.tinypic.com/24ybprs.jpg

SOLOQ LADDER STATUS:
http://i62.tinypic.com/rckdj9.jpg

The highest rating found is 2645 in the SOLOQ bracket with a score of 161-26

Let's make it easy and assume he had his honor from scratch already calculated with 2645 rating in mind and he won all games. Even though we all know this isn't the case and this example already favors the players' honor gain massively.

0,135 x 2645 = 357 honor per game.

20.000 honor for 1 slot.

20.000/357 = 56 games for 1 slot.

56 games at 2645 rating x 7-10 slots = 392-560 games for 1 full transmog set at 2645 rating.

Now let's look at games played at the top of ladder by averaging out the amount of games played (won + loss) in the 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ bracket.

2v2: 109+5 = 114 games played and sitting rank 1

3v3: 100+20 = 120 games played and sitting at rank 1

SOLOQ: 161+26 = 187 games played and sitting at rank 1

114+120+187= 421/3 = ~ 140 games played on average for a rank 1 player.

Congratulations. It is the END OF THE SEASON and you obtained roughly 2 transmog slots and are nearing your third!

Now let's assume you are rank 1 in 2v2, 3v3 and SOLOQ ALL TOGETHER.

Congratulations IF YOU'RE A CASTER WITH 1 WEAPON: you've obtained your first full transmog set. Better not change your mind about what transmog you wanna wear!

Sorry anyone with a shield+one hander or more , you still have a few miles to go!
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Now we got settled out just how MOTIVATING this must be, let's not forget the donators.

In the past people paid between 10-60 euros for any kind of donation. From a title, a donator set, free WF on 1 character, free WF on all characters to VIP. Obviously they did so to gain an advantage. Yet still the money kept the server alive.

Currently everyone has that same gear and the staff needs a new way to gain revenue, to milk the ol' cow. Understandable after such a generous act to give free WF to everyone who doesn't have the money. The staff still needs to pay the server and ofcourse... there salaries.

Ow, about that:

Roughly 3000 dollar for a good programmer, if I recall the latest job opening.

Not rough at all for the 50% of the playerbase living in eastern-europe earning approximaly 400-600 euro a month.

But you MUST be that one serbian/russian guy who dgaf, decides not to buy bread this week and go donate!

...Except that donators who before donated for that exact same privilege are currently emptyhanded, hoping to get in good graces with the staff.... For 10% bonus honor per win (if they're lucky), a limited edition transmog set you might not like and you STILL have to farm tokens for, or... a thank you for paying their salaries.

Or you could ofcourse make the same mistake TWICE and donate AGAIN roughly 30-40 euro for 1 FULL TRANSMOG SET that doesn't even unlock it permanently...

and then BE HAPPY, cause YOU SHOWED EM! ...

Untill the staff decides they going for a new course, and you just wasted 30-40 euros for hot air.

Now really HOW can i NOT be HAPPY about THIS?

REALLY.

HOW?!

But then again, transmogs are really NOT that important, are they? They after all do NOTHING for the actual stats I play.

Cause CLEARLY that's ALL that people care about. Cause there's obviously NO reason people are motivated to play more when they look cool.

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PLEASE let us know how motivated YOU are by posting below!

He said eveything ...

Just ticking away till this topic gets deleted/I'm getting banned for pointing this out.

best post i've ever seen in this forum

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judgelawlx

Now we got settled out just how MOTIVATING this must be, let's not forget the donators.

In the past people paid between 10-60 euros for any kind of donation. From a title, a donator set, free WF on 1 character, free WF on all characters to VIP. Obviously they did so to gain an advantage. Yet still the money kept the server alive.

Currently everyone has that same gear and the staff needs a new way to gain revenue, to milk the ol' cow. Understandable after such a generous act to give free WF to everyone who doesn't have the money. The staff still needs to pay the server and ofcourse... there salaries.

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I'll just touch this part.

Regarding "motivation," it generally comes from a goal. Easy goals give little motivation, hard goals weed out the ones who didn't really want it enough to invest the time and effort to get it. If fighting and grinding to reach your goals of a transmogrification set like this is too much, either you don't care about the prize that much for it to be a goal or you're too lazy to go through it. This change is obviously meant to give people a reason to play and diversify what categories they play it, to get the most points towards their goal. People who want to get it with a click or with just a couple games are obviously going to be discouraged, and that will just make it that much more meaningful for the people who go through it.

Regarding the donation for VIP, that was for AT. There's no AT anymore. Not sure how many times that needs to be said. On top of that, you made full use of all the VIP benefits for however long it was between your donation and the moment AT stopped existing. If AT had closed (as was going to happen) instead of merging, and some AT staff came work here, would you try waving the "I paid for VIP" flag?

People have to stop thinking of Blackrock as "AT under a different name." This is Warmane, not AT. The way Molten donations worked was wildly different than how AT's did. As far as the Tournament servers go, concessions will have to be made on both ends to accommodate both kinds of players in a middle ground, without one side having huge advantages over the other just because in the now-gone AT they had different benefits.

So what you're basically saying is that by selling the same car with a repaint (aka pre-merg - post-merge) justifies milking that cow AGAIN for full prize money?

Now let's say I respect that decision. Which I really don't. But let's say.

Your post still makes me laugh really hard. Since you either totally missed the part about high rated players at end of season having hardly enough honor to get ANY transmog really..

OR you think lazyness/motivation isn't decided by the rating people play at, but by the amount of games people play.

Quantity over quality.

I bet the cooks at MC Donalds must love you for praizing them making100 burgers/per minute as more motivated than a michellin starred cook making 1 foi gras/per minute.

We're saved, obnoxious is here!

#SOVJETUNION2015

(edit:

By the way: yes I did get my full share out of the VIP. But some people didn't. And not seeing that as for what it is, is just ignorant.)

What full prize money? Are you being charged to play? Or does your mouse and keyboard get some sort of lag when you don't have your favorite transmogrification set? Oh my, so it takes a while to get the looks you want, instead of instant gratification... break open the cheese boxes, because here comes the whine!

Seriously, if you think working for a prize like this is too much, you don't deserve it in the first place as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding your edit, perhaps you should start seeing the situation for what it is then, to avoid fitting your own description.


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This thread has been forwarded to Malaco, who said he will reply in a few hours when he gets home. Until then it will remain locked to dam the flood of tears.

Hey there Judgelawlx.

As we talked a lot on skype already i can tell you and the other publicly here aswell.

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....-Transmog-info
This topic clears pretty much everything out.

But if i could break it down even more.

What the server was before the changes

• Majority of the players had full gear
• People had nothing to fight for
• New player had a hard time to integrate due to the gear gap
• Transmog was easy obtainable

After the changes

• Equal gear for everyone
• People now got something to farm for. The weekly honor system is easily improved and can add more reward features along the way
• The transmog npc is now more feature rich and gives you way way more flexibility.
• Transmog is now something that not everyone have. Its hard to get and i would say that a good thing. Why not reward those who invest effort and time in their char?

So if we break it down even more.
Stop cry. Start play the game and get rewarded for your effort.

Side note, we're working on a way to reward higher rated players more honor.

No it makes people farm honor with suicidal double / tripple dps combos for fast arenas.

I can't deny that this new system is good to make people farm but 20k is a bit too much or maybe the weekly reset should be longer.
Because with this system you have to farm on the same character. I, for example, like to play on different characters. I will never be able to get a transmog by doing so but it doesn't mean that I won't play a lot.
What you have to understand Malaco (and I think that this is the point of view of a lot of people) is that the new system is good but the price of the rewards are a little too high.
For another point I am VIP and I'm okay if we don't get advantages compared to non donator people, I enjoyed my VIP enough. The reward system is the most important thing, full gear for everyone is a good thing.
Keep it up everything isn't bad it just needs some changes ! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poXXypoXX

I can't deny that this new system is good to make people farm but 20k is a bit too much or maybe the weekly reset should be longer.
Because with this system you have to farm on the same character. I, for example, like to play on different characters. I will never be able to get a transmog by doing so but it doesn't mean that I won't play a lot.
What you have to understand Malaco (and I think that this is the point of view of a lot of people) is that the new system is good but the price of the rewards are a little too high.
For another point I am VIP and I'm okay if we don't get advantages compared to non donator people, I enjoyed my VIP enough. The reward system is the most important thing, full gear for everyone is a good thing.
Keep it up everything isn't bad it just needs some changes ! :)

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The price is high indeed. But that was also intended.
And i can gladly tell you that people that donated in the past on AT and warmane premium users will get T7 unlocked for free. Without any tokens req.

Would it be possible to add an (expensive) option to actually 'buy' a Transmog so that you won`t have to spend any more tokens to use it in the future?
(currently you can only 'rent' Transmogs; you`ll forfeit your token when you un- or remog it)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selaya

Would it be possible to add an (expensive) option to actually 'buy' a Transmog so that you won`t have to spend any more tokens to use it in the future?
(currently you can only 'rent' Transmogs; you`ll forfeit your token when you un- or remog it)

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Not sure. The only option would be premade transmog sets like we used on AT.
But im not sure if thats gonna happen here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malaco

The price is high indeed. But that was also intended.
And i can gladly tell you that people that donated in the past on AT and warmane premium users will get T7 unlocked for free. Without any tokens req.

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ah nice.. and is that really all we get? 1 transmog set?
i expected atleast reduced prize of tokens for vip accounts.. is that really too much ? did i donate 60 euros for teleport command?

I don't understand why should everyone have transmogs ? Before solo queue, some of the transmogs required 2.4k in 3s. I don't recall seeing the entire server with Sunwell transmogs or t3. And yeah, you might say "But oh, we have already unlocked these". Well, they are still unlocked. And it's not only you and me that has lost their cool (personal preference) looking characters, but the entire server.

Anyway, Malaco, please reconsider the honor wipe.