PVP gear for fresh 80s on icecrown

Problems:

.Leveling is increased meaning you have less gear when you hit 80 and are at a huge disadvantage

.Contrary to the generic "Go do PoS etc. for gear before BGs" advice DPS(and sometimes even healer) queues for dungeons are too long for gearing so the only efficient way to do so is BGs

.Gear disadvantage means people don't want to participate in BGs and end up AFKing, even full geared teammates

.PVP gear takes too long to farm due to this

.Fresh 80s spend way too long being useless in bgs

.Donators mean people don't stand a chance

My suggestion:

.Some sort of cheap, low Ilvl pvp vendor(Hateful?) that won't affect pve(or possiblly will, why not they're undergeared too?) for a small amount of honor or gold so people can actually compete

It seems like there's something of a gear gap for fresh 80s, my brother quit because of this, I'm still considering it and I bet other people have felt the same. I know you want to keep the server Blizzlike although you have faster leveling, you must admit this has created a problem that needs to be fixed. Just read the forums.

The problem with donators being so common is that it alienates any new players you have that just get told to "L2P" or "Gear doesn't matter" when they're fighting full BiS Smourne players while they have 9-11k health.

Edit for contrast:

.My Holy Pala(with help queueing with my tank brother) only has 5 items that aren't epic after 9 hours at 80.

.My rogue which I only PVP on has 2 PVP items after 20 hours at 80.

There's a simple fix for this, play the game more.
Collect reputation quartermaster gear (easy to rush exalted with boosted rates), host your own 5 man dungeon runs instead of sitting in Dalaran praying for RDF to pop and/or buy crafted gear by earning gold like everybody else.

Spoiler: Show

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Originally Posted by Audioholic

There's a simple fix for this, play the game more.

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

.My Holy Pala(with help queueing with my tank brother) only has 5 items that aren't epic after 9 hours at 80.

.My rogue which I only PVP on has 2 PVP items after 20 hours at 80.

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How much more should I play it.

To the point where you have earned your gear like the majority of the realm, people who donate for their sets are a vast minority despite what you might think.

And yet BG afking and botting will remain a problem, hey I might even join them.

That's one solution.

And thus the point of my post.

if your queing for fos/pos through rdf than you're doing it the stupid way. it takes all of 5-10 mins to find a fos/pos farm group if you actually go to the area and look. if you want free/easy pvp gear than go play blackrock.

I don't want free or easy pvp gear but how about reasonable? in PVE there's an obvious and steady gear progression once you get started and in PVP there clearly isn't.

2 items in 20 hours doesn't really compare to almost full gear in 9 hours does it?

Which looks more free and easy to you?

Here is what you can do : start an alt, and while leveling him, do your random BGs with your main till you win at least once. and do your 10 arena games a week.
if you have one already, start a profession or two and gather stuff to make money. This will keep you busy while your main PVP char is gearing. it will take a while though :P

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

I don't want free or easy pvp gear but how about reasonable? in PVE there's an obvious and steady gear progression once you get started and in PVP there clearly isn't.

2 items in 20 hours doesn't really compare to almost full gear in 9 hours does it?

Which looks more free and easy to you?

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There is a clear progression on pvp as well. It's crafted gear -> honor gear/wg gear -> arena gear. You can also buy furious set with badges, if you feel like farming heroics. FoS/PoS farm is easy, you travel to the entrance of the instance and search/form a group there and farm away.

Which looks more free and easy to me? Well, given that you have to farm those pvp items anyway. Your rogue has 2 pvp items after 20 hours and your paladin has 0 pvp items after 9 hours?

No clue why you think donators are a problem. The situation would be the exact same, even if there was no donation gear. People are geared because the server doesn't progress and is already a bit old.

And no, I don't think there's a problem. I was able to gear up just fine. Play on Blackrock server, if the gearing on Icecrown is too hard for you.

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Originally Posted by DakMonkey

There is a clear progression on pvp as well. It's crafted gear -> honor gear/wg gear -> arena gear. You can also buy furious set with badges, if you feel like farming heroics. FoS/PoS farm is easy, you travel to the entrance of the instance and search/form a group there and farm away.

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Crafted gear that costs 1.5k per piece and that's if it's even on AH? Again my pala is almost full geared and doesn't have enough badges for 1 pvp item.

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Originally Posted by DakMonkey

Which looks more free and easy to me? Well, given that you have to farm those pvp items anyway. Your rogue has 2 pvp items after 20 hours and your paladin has 0 pvp items after 9 hours?

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You just ignored the point. My pala is almost full epics from pveing, insinuating I want anything for "free" in comparison to that is completely ignorant of the facts.

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Originally Posted by DakMonkey

No clue why you think donators are a problem. The situation would be the exact same, even if there was no donation gear. People are geared because the server doesn't progress and is already a bit old.

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It's not they're a problem on themselves, they're a problem in the circumstance. They're not a cause but they add to the overall problems.

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Originally Posted by DakMonkey

And no, I don't think there's a problem. I was able to gear up just fine. Play on Blackrock server, if the gearing on Icecrown is too hard for you.

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Most people have been semi-insulting rather than actually looking at my points like this. making it sound like I'm incompetent because the gear farm is too long, tedious and poorly balanced. There's nothing difficult about joining bgs and participating in pvp so why would you even imply it unless you couldn't think of anything else to say?

Adhominem everywhere.

I started gearing my char one week ago and am almost full honor geared (except belt and boots which need rating) + WG shoulders now. Imo the problem isn't the BG phase. Yes it's really frustrating when you start with the mix of quest, reput and crafted gear but in the end, even if you are useless and get one shotted, you can still get honor gear quite quickly with WG, WG quests and BGs.

The problems begin when you start doing arena for the arena gear. From the start at 0 rating, during something like 11 or 12 matches, we only met one or two guys low geared like us (by "low gear" I mean honor gear + pve). Everybody else were war, dks or other ****s, 35k unbuff, full 277, opti pve, half with Shadowmournes... At 0 rating !
How new comers are supposed to get arena gear, or at least climb to 1400 to be able to buy the wrathufl belt and boots ? It's ****ing impossible, even if like us you did the things in the right order (farm reput and fos/pos > get honor + WG gear > tag arenas). It would take us an entire year doing our 10 matches to get wrathful set at this rate.
So my question is simple, how do new comers get arena gear, is donating a necessity ?

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Originally Posted by Darwindeez

So my question is simple, how do new comers get arena gear, is donating a necessity ?

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10 games per week. (@0rating: 2v2-261aps, 3v3-302aps, 5v5-344aps) Daily BG first win nets 25 arena points every day. So combined arena points per week at 0 rating: 7x 25aps + 344 from 5v5 = 519 arena points per week. (If you are having troubles finding 5v5 teams to fight against your 5v5 team, you can /w daknarop, I can play 10 games against your team.) Remember to collect vote points every day from the website / achievement farm so you have over 1k achievement points so you can get vote points. If wrathful belt/boots ratings seem hard to get, you might want to buy relentless first, they are a lot cheaper than wrathfuls.

Is donating necessity? Well, yes, for queue skip, but for gear, nah. You said it yourself, there's people with shadowmournes at 0 rating. They donated and didn't get to wrathful boots ratings either, so I guess their donations didn't really change anything. Tho, donating for that one piece of gear that is hard to obtain (PvE weapon/trinket/whatever) might make your game a bit easier.

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

Crafted gear that costs 1.5k per piece and that's if it's even on AH? Again my pala is almost full geared and doesn't have enough badges for 1 pvp item.

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1.5k per piece is not that much when you get 100-200 gold from each lvl80 quest. You can get those cheaper when bought outside of AH. If you want all 8 set pieces, you can most likely ask for some sort of bundle deal 8 items for 8k. (or 6pieces for 6k)

There's also a lot of cheap BoE items from ICC heroics/raids in AH that can help you with gearing. (Yes, some are 10k per item, but there's a lot of 0.5-2k items as well)

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

You just ignored the point. My pala is almost full epics from pveing, insinuating I want anything for "free" in comparison to that is completely ignorant of the facts.

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You asked which looked more free and easy and I answered. How I've understood your posts is that your paladin has bad gear from heroics and your rogue has bad gear from random places, but your rogue has 2 pvp items and your paladin has 0 pvp items. Since your rogue is ahead of your paladin with 2 pieces of gear, it seems like it's the easyer choice.

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

It's not they're a problem on themselves, they're a problem in the circumstance. They're not a cause but they add to the overall problems.

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Would it feel any different without donation gear? If there was no donation gear, there only difference would be less shadowmournes and people full of heroic pve items would be full of non-heroic version of those items via vote-points. Most donators only buy 1 or 2 pieces of gear, how much donation gear adds to the "problem" is just a drop in the ocean.

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

Most people have been semi-insulting rather than actually looking at my points like this. making it sound like I'm incompetent because the gear farm is too long, tedious and poorly balanced.

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1-2 weeks of farming for full rele/furious set and wrathful offsets is too long, tedious and poorly balanced?

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

Adhominem everywhere.

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Q.Q everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Spitetezoix

How much more should I play it.

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5 pieces in 8 hours? That's not too bad. Perhaps you should consider getting some crafted gear. This isn't retail where you can gear up ready for the first difficulty of the top-end raid in about 3-4 hours.