Remove RDF Rewards

[s]From what I've heard, Warmane did not have Random Dungeon Finder for a while, but apparently people begged for it and now you have it. There's two very large problems with this.[/s]
edit: I misheard. RDF went down for a while due to bugs or something.

First and foremost--and you've really got to absorb this one for it is the entire reason retail WoW is crap--is this: PLAYERS DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANT. You can't just install a feature because enough people beg for it. You should find your top expert players, the ones with tons of experience as well as the foresight to understand how a change can play out. Get these players to talk about the effects of such changes down the road, and strongly consider whether or not you want that outcome. Don't consider whether or not the general playerbase claims to want the feature when they don't even understand the outcome.

Secondly, the worst part of Random Dungeon Finder is the reward. Think about it: RDF is an option for players to be lazy and let the game find a group for them, because they can't be bothered to find their own group. The reward is rewarding players for being lazy. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. What happens when you have that system is that a lot of players who were willing to form or join groups through chat channels are now unwilling to run anything other than RDF groups because they don't want to miss out on the RDF reward. So the few remaining players who just want a social and enjoyable dungeon run are drawing from a thinned out population, THEY ARE BEING PUNISHED FOR PUTTING MORE EFFORT INTO MAKING THE GAME A SOCIAL EXPERIENCE. The culmination of this effect is a playerbase that runs instances for the sole purpose of obtaining the gear, and they do not make any friends along the way. New players reach the top not understanding how to socialize in the game, and veteran players find that all their friends have stopped talking. They eventually quit, feeling sad and empty, and leaving behind an empty shell of a game populated by players who have not yet realized that they aren't having fun anymore.



But you can fix this by removing the Random Dungeon Finder rewards. No longer will players have an incentive to say no to a social group invite. It fixes the critical failure even if the wound that is RDF continues to bleed. At least the wounded game can survive.

if you don't want rdf than go play on lord. rdf saves a hell of a lot of time looking for a group and traveling to the instance. incase you hadn't noticed saving time is why most people play higher rated servers to begin with. not to mention that if rdf was removed many people would just not bother doing dungeons at all, or strictly do them with their guild.

also, warmane had rdf ever since i joined this server back im 2011, not sure where you get your info from but it's not overly accurate.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

not to mention that if rdf was removed many people would just not bother doing dungeons at all, or strictly do them with their guild.

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That doesn't make any sense. WoW didn't have this RDF for at least five years, and that didn't stop people from running dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

incase you hadn't noticed saving time is why most people play higher rated servers to begin with.

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What if we just want to skip past old world content that we've already done several times, but want the full experience of Northrend content? But I guess some of us just want to skip past everything, right up to tier 10 gear, and completely miss the point of doing any of this, the point of playing WoW in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

That doesn't make any sense. WoW didn't have this RDF for at least five years, and that didn't stop people from running dungeons.

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there's a big difference of never having it, and having it removed after we've all gotten use to it. did you not see the outrage of the cummunity when they wanted to lower the rates to 1x on icecrown? i'd be willing to bet it would be 100x larger if they even suggested removing rdf.

back when i still played most players i knew wouldn't do an rdf without thier guild unless they had no other choice, randies are a royal pain in the ***, especially when half them don't seem to speak english.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

What if we just want to skip past old world content that we've already done several times, but want the full experience of Northrend content? But I guess some of us just want to skip past everything, right up to tier 10 gear, and completely miss the point of doing any of this, the point of playing WoW in the first place.

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if you want the full northrend experience without rdf than don't use it. form your own groups and see how many people want to walk/fly to a dungeon. or form a guild for that purpose. there's no need to screw the realm up for the majority just because a few don't like rdf (which you're the first person i've ever herd complain about it, aside from lord players and they've already got their no rdf realm)

My biggest problem with randos in RDF is the lazy entitlement of the randos...I can understand asking for a kick if the RDF bugs and you're already saved to that HC instance...but complaining because the instance is "too long" or you "don't need any drops" and you want a "faster/better dungeon"...or someone makes one bad pull or didn't notice a patrol and half the group quits before anyone learns from their mistakes? No one's gonna get better if you play that way...have some patience.

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Originally Posted by LezChap1

My biggest problem with randos in RDF is the lazy entitlement of the randos...I can understand asking for a kick if the RDF bugs and you're already saved to that HC instance...but complaining because the instance is "too long" or you "don't need any drops" and you want a "faster/better dungeon"...or someone makes one bad pull or didn't notice a patrol and half the group quits before anyone learns from their mistakes? No one's gonna get better if you play that way...have some patience.

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Not everyone ready to spend whole day in Stratholme, bettter do fast instance for EOF.

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if you don't want rdf than go play on lord.

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Pretty much this ^.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

if you want the full northrend experience without rdf than don't use it. form your own groups and see how many people want to walk/fly to a dungeon.

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Getting to the dungeon isn't the issue. You might not be aware, but there's this thing called a summoning stone which lets you summon a group to an instance. But you're missing the entire premise of my post by saying something like this. I'm fine with not using RDF. The problem comes in when I try to form a group the old way and there's not nearly as many people willing to join because they want the RDF reward. They don't want to waste their time joining a group that I took my time to form. That's the problem. That's why I said remove the reward for using RDF. Why should there be a reward for using it? It makes no sense and should be removed.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

Getting to the dungeon isn't the issue. You might not be aware, but there's this thing called a summoning stone which lets you summon a group to an instance. But you're missing the entire premise of my post by saying something like this. I'm fine with not using RDF. The problem comes in when I try to form a group the old way and there's not nearly as many people willing to join because they want the RDF reward. They don't want to waste their time joining a group that I took my time to form. That's the problem. That's why I said remove the reward for using RDF. Why should there be a reward for using it? It makes no sense and should be removed.

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The reward is there to encourage people to use it. Otherwise only people who need gear from dungeons would join them. Which would make dungeons take at least twice as much time. Is that your goal?

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

So the few remaining players who just want a social and enjoyable dungeon run are drawing from a thinned out population

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If you know such people just make an RDF group with them. If rewards were removed others wouldn't join RDF anyway.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

Getting to the dungeon isn't the issue. You might not be aware, but there's this thing called a summoning stone which lets you summon a group to an instance. But you're missing the entire premise of my post by saying something like this. I'm fine with not using RDF. The problem comes in when I try to form a group the old way and there's not nearly as many people willing to join because they want the RDF reward. They don't want to waste their time joining a group that I took my time to form. That's the problem. That's why I said remove the reward for using RDF. Why should there be a reward for using it? It makes no sense and should be removed.

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Again...go play Lordaeron. Idk why kids on here want to ruin Icecrown by making it exactly like Lordaeron when they could just go play Lordaeron and leave the rest of us alone.

>Joined October 2, 2016
>Knows whats best for community

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Originally Posted by sybirke

>Joined October 2, 2016
>Knows whats best for community

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it can be twink/bank/new account
forum registration date means nothing

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

Getting to the dungeon isn't the issue. You might not be aware, but there's this thing called a summoning stone which lets you summon a group to an instance. But you're missing the entire premise of my post by saying something like this. I'm fine with not using RDF. The problem comes in when I try to form a group the old way and there's not nearly as many people willing to join because they want the RDF reward. They don't want to waste their time joining a group that I took my time to form. That's the problem. That's why I said remove the reward for using RDF. Why should there be a reward for using it? It makes no sense and should be removed.

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You might not be aware, but it takes 2 people to summon. meaning you'd still need a 2nd person to actually run/fly to the instance. my point still stands.

i did however missread the last 2 sentences in your first post, i missed the "rewards" part when you said "remove the random dungeon finder rewards".

RDF system is long used to level since 3.3 and even nowdays on Blizzard. Taking this feature out in Lordaeron was a big fail because the "unforgettable and memorable experience" turned into "spamming global, and then 2 guys go to summon stone and the other 3 wait for them to summon". That's why when they merged the new core to Deathwing/Ragnaros (now Icecrown) Lordaeron population dropped like that. Maybe they should have removed the bonuses/rewards instead of total removing it IN LORDAERON.
About Icecrown, it's like they said before me: having it removed after knowing how useful it is and not even knowing about its existance (what happened before 3.3 patch) its pretty total different. You'll receive a huge no if you propose to remove it from Icecrown.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

New players reach the top not understanding how to socialize in the game, and veteran players find that all their friends have stopped talking. They eventually quit, feeling sad and empty, and leaving behind an empty shell of a game populated by players who have not yet realized that they aren't having fun anymore..

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If you WERE right, which means, YOU ARE WRONG, people who play on Lordaeron must be more sociable and fluent at speaking English. Even if people walk/fly to the dungeon, they still don't talk. Go play Lordaeron, and you will realize. People who WOULD talk in RDF would STILL talk.

If you feel like you are being penalized for trying to make a group instead of joining RDF, that is absolutely normal. You are not utilizing the tool of convenience that everyone else uses (AKA, SOCIAL NORM) so, you are expected to be penalized. I don't know why you are complaining honestly. What did you expect? The boss to drop more loots when you walk in?

You are free to go play on Lordaeron where RDF doesn't exist YET.

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Originally Posted by Winternyght

From what I've heard, Warmane did not have Random Dungeon Finder for a while.

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Wrong, but that is to be expected in a troll post.

I think you do give it a good go, but you really need to give the argument for your position further depth, such depth, that it is simply not possible for someone without an extremely comprehensive understanding to insert such perfectly flawed details into the argument. Mentioning the rate cuts not going to 1x because people don't know what they want and talking about how effective the gold cap will be in improving things for new players and annoying the rich, and how market prices are already better thanks to the changes being made would get you another point.

As it stands you get 6/10; would feed.

I would like to direct you towards https://sciencedefeated.wordpress.com if you are interested in improving yourself, most of the trolling there is 8/10 to 10/10, study it. Raise your game.