Fury warr BiS gear and rotation question.

I was searching for the most accurate BiS gear for fury warr and found this Landsouls spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0X...0zOUo0dVU/view
Now there are some things that I dont understand.
1) Why does he use http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=41285 and not http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=41398?? It would require only one blue gem to activate the meta.
2) According to the strength equivalency points haste has a value of 0,83 while crit has a value of only 0,76.
I guess crit has such a low value because he is over crit capped with white attacks due to glancing blows.
If this is the case why does he use http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40142 and not http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40146?

Regarding fury warr rotation:
3) When is it worth to include http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47467 in the rotation?
Only when there is no rog nor prot warr in the raid? I have no idea about rogs rotation, do they use http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=48669?
Does sunder armor produce threat when in fury stance? I already have serious threat problems with out it...

umbrage armbands are BIS over tosks

1) When you are bis or close 21crit meta is better stat wise, and gem wise also makes sense since in many situations u need the 10arp from the extra blue gem to cap yourself just right. This has been proven before here on molten/warmane forums maybe some1 can dig it out.

2) Again theorycrafting and RNG. You are very close to white crit cap, I am not sure if glancing blows are working correctly now but before it was possible to push em out of the hit table by stacking crit. Overall it is not worth to replace crit with haste.

3) U can use sunder armor as a filler I personally prefer slam>sunder>rend as a filler priority, it can get you threat problems in pugs, in a guild raid environment tank should not have problems to keep aggro with all the available raid cds: you can a ask a rogue to use sunder a the cost of less dps from them; if the tank is war no need.

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Originally Posted by Pencheto

umbrage armbands are BIS over tosks

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yea, I saw this and stopped reading

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Originally Posted by vasdos

yea, I saw this and stopped reading

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Umbrage armsbands are better if you only take a look at wrists. They aren't in the whole set, tho.

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Originally Posted by vasdos

yea, I saw this and stopped reading

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Do you also put 22 agi on your cloak ?

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Originally Posted by Bensten

Umbrage armsbands are better if you only take a look at wrists. They aren't in the whole set, tho.

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IDK I guess both of you seem to be playing different patch/expansion we are talking about wrath of the lich king 3.3.5a here

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Originally Posted by Pencheto

IDK I guess both of you seem to be playing different patch/expansion we are talking about wrath of the lich king 3.3.5a here

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Yes, and going Umbrage over Toskk's here is a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Pencheto

umbrage armbands are BIS over tosks

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Have u done calculations with Landsouls or other theorycrafting progs or how do u come to that conclusion?
In case u are right, why not http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50653 over http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=47545?

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Originally Posted by Pencheto

3) U can use sunder armor as a filler I personally prefer slam>sunder>rend as a filler priority, it can get you threat problems in pugs, in a guild raid environment tank should not have problems to keep aggro with all the available raid cds: you can a ask a rogue to use sunder a the cost of less dps from them; if the tank is war no need.

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Thing is that I have even in guild raids often threat problems. I guess the reason for that is that fury warr is one of the tops dps but has only 10% threat reduction while other classes have 20% and more.
My question is actually if abilitys such as http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47467 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=30324 cause only additional threat when in prot stance or in all stances.

U say that u include rend in ur rotation.
Is that really worth it? My rage ping pongs like crazy. Even when i have zero rage it can happen that one second later it jumps back to 100%.
Now finding the right moment to switch to battle stance for rend seems impossible when the rage ping pongs like that. To me it seems like this stance dancing for rend is very risky and can easily end up in a dps drop because when doing it u clip atleast one heroic strike which in return can proc slam.

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Originally Posted by Bensten

Umbrage armsbands are better if you only take a look at wrists. They aren't in the whole set, tho.

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no they are ****ing not. Do you want to miss out on 68 arp for some ****ing haste? are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Pencheto

Do you also put 22 agi on your cloak ?

yes ofc I put 22 agil on cloak, jesus christ.

IDK I guess both of you seem to be playing different patch/expansion we are talking about wrath of the lich king 3.3.5a here

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idk what the **** he is on about, tbh

Guys, pls only reply when u have done ur own calculations with a theorycrafting prog.
Im searching for the best gear setup based on facts, raw dps numbers and not based on assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

Have u done calculations with Landsouls or other theorycrafting progs or how do u come to that conclusion?
In case u are right, why not http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50653 over http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=47545?

Vereesa's dexterity is bis for both arms and fury warr, end of story.

Thing is that I have even in guild raids often threat problems. I guess the reason for that is that fury warr is one of the tops dps but has only 10% threat reduction while other classes have 20% and more.
My question is actually if abilitys such as http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47467 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=30324 cause only additional threat when in prot stance or in all stances.

U say that u include rend in ur rotation.
Is that really worth it? My rage ping pongs like crazy. Even when i have zero rage it can happen that one second later it jumps back to 100%.
Now finding the right moment to switch to battle stance for rend seems impossible when the rage ping pongs like that. To me it seems like this stance dancing for rend is very risky and can easily end up in a dps drop because when doing it u clip atleast one heroic strike which in return can proc slam.

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as for the sunder armor, use it in fights where there are as little phase changes/moving as possible, I mean its not worth wasting 5 gcd's in a fight where you have to move and kill adds or w.e. and then go back to boss for 30 sec..
This unless you have another 1-2 warriors who can help you with applying sunder to the boss.

as for the rend, if you're not used to it, then dont use it. carry on with your basic rotation, would be my advice. If you do it wrong it will result in a rage starve and a huge dps loss.

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Originally Posted by vasdos

no they are ****ing not. Do you want to miss out on 68 arp for some ****ing haste? are you serious?

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Umbrage are one of the best items in the expansion with an insanely high item budget. Again, in a vacuum, they are the best DPS wrists out there. And no, I don't wanna trade ArP for haste and that's the reason I wrote that they aren't better in the set comparison.

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

Is that really worth it? My rage ping pongs like crazy. Even when i have zero rage it can happen that one second later it jumps back to 100%.
Now finding the right moment to switch to battle stance for rend seems impossible when the rage ping pongs like that. To me it seems like this stance dancing for rend is very risky and can easily end up in a dps drop because when doing it u clip atleast one heroic strike which in return can proc slam.

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As you wrote yourself, if you get a Slam-Proc while you are rending you are indeed losing dps. On the other hand, you will gain DPS if you would sit there do nothing instead. Rend should only be used during the 2 Free-GCD window.

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Originally Posted by Bensten

Umbrage armsbands are better if you only take a look at wrists. They aren't in the whole set, tho.

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If anything, this is the other way around. Toskk's looks immensely attractive at first because you can basically consider the Arp to be as good as (or better) than Str, your primary stat. Umbrage Armbands only pulls out ahead when you have enough Arp in the rest of your gear such that the one on Toskk's wouldn't be necessary to hit the Arp Cap.

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

Have u done calculations with Landsouls or other theorycrafting progs or how do u come to that conclusion?
In case u are right, why not http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50653 over http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=47545?

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Yeah, simulations point to Umbrage being marginally better. The reasoning is that the Haste beats out the lesser amount of Str you'd have gained if you'd gone with Toskk's. At the end of the day it's an exceedingly tiny difference either way.

The comparison isn't the same when it comes to the cloaks because the difference in total stat weights between the wrists is greater.

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Originally Posted by vasdos

no they are ****ing not. Do you want to miss out on 68 arp for some ****ing haste? are you serious?

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I enjoy that it's always the most clueless people who take up the most cocksure and belligerent tones in these discussions.

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Originally Posted by vasdos

as for the rend, if you're not used to it, then dont use it. carry on with your basic rotation, would be my advice. If you do it wrong it will result in a rage starve and a huge dps loss.

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Well, getting used to it is not the problem.
The question is if its really worth to use rend.
Even when u time rend perfectly it can still happen that u delay the usage of BT because u dont have enough rage after switching back to fury stance.
In addition the chance is very high that u lose at least one heroic strike when stance dancing due to low rage.
So even if u time rend perfectly it can still end up in a dps drop when u are unlucky with ur rage regen.

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

Well, getting used to it is not the problem.
The question is if its really worth to use rend.
Even when u time rend perfectly it can still happen that u delay the usage of BT because u dont have enough rage after switching back to fury stance.
In addition the chance is very high that u lose at least one heroic strike when stance dancing due to low rage.
So even if u time rend perfectly it can still end up in a dps drop when u are unlucky with ur rage regen.

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well, its not timed perfectly if you do lose a BT or HS when you do it. thats why I said what I said. sure, you can practise over and over to perfect it, but until then it will most likely be a dps drop.