The Contradicting Problem that is 5v5

Good Evening my fellow Comrades!

I have a question regarding 5v5. I have been going back in fourth with friends regarding this issue and we can't seem to come to a solution.

Problem: 5v5 teams are scarce no one ever Ques

Solution: We decide to make 5v5 teams and Que which would lead us to facing each other and anyone else willing to do 5v5 and have legitamate* matches non fixed.

Problem: That is considered Win trading and can get you banned.

Argument: It isn't Win trading because we are willing to play any team that ques and we are legitimately competing in the matches.

Problem: Yes you are legitimately competing however you know each other and know that you will be queing, which GM's would consider Win Trading regardless.

Argument: Fair enough we would know that another team would be queuing however the 5v5 bracket being scarce with teams and noncompetitive is not our problem and the same exact thing happens with high mmr rated teams in the 3's bracket, why target 5v5?

Problem: Regardless of reasoning people have gotten banned from legit 5v5 matches because their match history consisted vs the same teams.

Argument: That's not our fault though, what are we supposed to do not compete for titles / achievements and rating because the bracket is scarce, how is the 5v5 bracket ever supposed to thrive with that logic.

Solution: Can't find one without leading to someone saying "yeah but people have still gotten banned because of that"

Can I get people feedback on the topic and some official Staff comments on this, so we can distinguish what we can and cant do regarding 5v5s without receiving any sort of disciplinary actions.

Thanks Comrades - Epic

Edit** This is regarding Icecrown WotLK realm

This post is talking about some of the best (in my opinion) features of the game, achievements. I know as well these flaws in this bracket which are the reasons I do not play arenas. The fact that people tell you that if you do 5v5 you'll get banned if you're up against another team consecutive matches. I'd love to see other peoples opinions and answers to this matter so I in the end might end up going for these achieves.

Time to release 5s solo queue. That would be funny...

Oh yes, we need to clear this up so people can start enjoying 5v5 again without getting banned...

Me, some folks and fellas are trying to organize 5v5 ladder outiside the in-game 5v5 arena system. The mechanics are not as actually playing inside the arena but it's better that not playing at all. We get together after raiding and jump to Gurubashi Arena and pop all cooldowns on each other like if there was no tomorrow. Game ends when there are players of only one team alive. Winning team has to alert his team that all members from the other team already died. If Warrior or Death Knight player kills all players from both teams, the opposite team wins. That way, the first team that dies will have something to hope for, which is that ****** player kills everyone without thinking about it. And dead members of surviving team have something to do even when dead, which is yell to Warrior to stop bladestorm on friend players. We have ladder statistics on notepad file and we screenshot and post it on Discord chat so other players can know their rating. If you want to help PvP community send me a message on Facebook with your character's name and what mask you want me to wear when we play.

When I look in the mirror I see my face in my eyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AurieI

Me, some folks and fellas are trying to organize 5v5 ladder outiside the in-game 5v5 arena system. The mechanics are not as actually playing inside the arena but it's better that not playing at all. We get together after raiding and jump to Gurubashi Arena and pop all cooldowns on each other like if there was no tomorrow. Game ends when there are players of only one team alive. Winning team has to alert his team that all members from the other team already died. If Warrior or Death Knight player kills all players from both teams, the opposite team wins. That way, the first team that dies will have something to hope for, which is that ****** player kills everyone without thinking about it. And dead members of surviving team have something to do even when dead, which is yell to Warrior to stop bladestorm on friend players. We have ladder statistics on notepad file and we screenshot and post it on Discord chat so other players can know their rating. If you want to help PvP community send me a message on Facebook with your character's name and what mask you want me to wear when we play.

When I look in the mirror I see my face in my eyes.

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Interesting however drift a bit off the main point of actually revitalising the bracket and actually competing for achieves and rewards / titles. If we could we get any Official Staff input on this topic that would be great!

Thank you for the feedback thus far Comrades!

No one? Staff?

Whats about disabling arena points from 5v5 and let ppl have some fun in 5v5? Me and my guild would love some fun arenas and achievment from 5v5. yeah there are that training 5v5, but still you cant get achievments from that. As it is dead anyways, few extra achievment point shouldnt hurt anyone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sampiks

Whats about disabling arena points from 5v5 and let ppl have some fun in 5v5?

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That would turn 5s into a wintrading ladder where ppl boost each other to 2.2k to get achievments and wrathful shoulders and elite weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

That would turn 5s into a wintrading ladder where ppl boost each other to 2.2k to get achievments and wrathful shoulders and elite weapon.

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^ agreed.. So what's the solution?

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Originally Posted by Epicsham

^ agreed.. So what's the solution?

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Possible solutions I can think of, though no one shoot me, this is off the top of the dome...

1. Make the 5v5 a slightly higher stake for the season win, thus people wanna get 5 teams and try to get that better prize..

2. Move it down to single Q for 5's with the achievements still on. This would create a variety of teams. Especially, say 30 people Q for it...You've got....(SOMEONE CORRECT MY MATH IF I'M WRONG, I DON'T KNOW IF I DID THIS RIGHT, DISCLAIMER, I FAILED MATH A LOT LOL) about 900 combos. That's assuming one faction though. But the point stands. Then you can't have the ban for win trading because the odds of landing against the EXACT same team, let alone consecutive times, is stupid low. I'm not trying that math. But the point there.

3. Shut it off entirely.

Problems:

1. This seems unfair to the other ladders, but if you raise the stakes of all ladders, people will still go for the easier to form teams.

2. My math is probably wrong. Again, don't shoot me.

3. No one wants that.

That's what I got.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Apolemicc

Possible solutions I can think of, though no one shoot me, this is off the top of the dome...

1. Make the 5v5 a slightly higher stake for the season win, thus people wanna get 5 teams and try to get that better prize..

2. Move it down to single Q for 5's with the achievements still on. This would create a variety of teams. Especially, say 30 people Q for it...You've got....(SOMEONE CORRECT MY MATH IF I'M WRONG, I DON'T KNOW IF I DID THIS RIGHT, DISCLAIMER, I FAILED MATH A LOT LOL) about 900 combos. That's assuming one faction though. But the point stands. Then you can't have the ban for win trading because the odds of landing against the EXACT same team, let alone consecutive times, is stupid low. I'm not trying that math. But the point there.

3. Shut it off entirely.

Problems:

1. This seems unfair to the other ladders, but if you raise the stakes of all ladders, people will still go for the easier to form teams.

2. My math is probably wrong. Again, don't shoot me.

3. No one wants that.

That's what I got.

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Regarding point 1.
Back in Molten there used to be high reward for 5s. It was 100 coins for the first rank, as far as i remember.
Compared to now 5s was more active but there were also tons of wintraders that tried to boost their team to rank one to get the reward. The consequence was that Molten removed the 5s rewards altogether.

Imo 5s solo queue would be the only solution that would make 5s active without flooding the ladder with wintrader.

I guess solo q would be good solution but only with some criterias, 2s-3s rating, gs, HKs idk, but queing together with any1 without any criteria would be disaster.