Why are people afraid of non overgeared tanks for the raids content?

Hello. Iam a 4.7 gearscore prot paladin(A) and i cant seem to be able to join toc raids even... i made my own toc10 and we did all with ease. Why are people afraid of lower gs tanks? Yes we take lot more dmg but we can manage, i have a weird schedule and that makes joining a raid guild near impossible as none are there for my raidtimes except one, but they want geared to **** ppl. And pugs need overgeared tanks, so how could this be manouvered around? Should i make my own small guild? Should i play dps spec till i get nice tank gear? It seems you need 300-500gs over the instance gs average to be able to tank it for pugs, altho iam appropriately geared and need items from the raids that i cannot join. This has been probably asked before on forums and its just another whine thread from me, altho i would love to get input from pug leaders or those guys who pug icc/toc hc/n on alts to farm the boeprimos.

Yeah the struggle is real man, I would just suggest you make your own raids as people seem to not rlly care that much about a lead that is 200-300 gs less then "NORMAL".
But for real though make your own raids, and maybe farm some gold for epic tank gear made by blacksmithers, such as pants and boots

^^ hard to get def cap with pillars/kingly boots early in gearing process. P.s the ah chest that is like 10k and same gs drops 25n toc so shouldnt waste gold on it.

I know what you mean.

People want 5K for POS HC, even though I did pos hc with my prot pala at 3.9 - 4.1.

It's not only tanks, though. I've noticed that people that ask for very high requirements are the worst trash that need carry. Like others have said, make your own raid, it's way better since people don't seem to mind

People just need to learn that with proper coordination and use of cooldowns you dont need that high of a gearscore. Examples: PoS HC is doable if everyone is around 4k gs, ICC 10 man while the average gs of the raid is 5.4k gs. But all of that requires people to know their class and encounters.

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Originally Posted by b_cryp

People just need to learn that with proper coordination and use of cooldowns you dont need that high of a gearscore. Examples: PoS HC is doable if everyone is around 4k gs, ICC 10 man while the average gs of the raid is 5.4k gs. But all of that requires people to know their class and encounters.

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You don't need 5.4k for ICC 10, ICC 10 is meant for people under 5k.

I am for example a BIS feral druid and was kicked out of a 25man raid by the leader with following reason: "You wear 2 pvp pieces, to low damage"
Felt like a bad joke cause in boss fights i am usually top3 in dps... the most people have no clue of proper rotations in pve.

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Originally Posted by Derpykins

You don't need 5.4k for ICC 10, ICC 10 is meant for people under 5k.

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lol ok <|:^)

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Originally Posted by b_cryp

lol ok <|:^)

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You being too bad to do ICC at 5 and under doesn't mean it's meant for higher geared players. My first ICC, I was the highest at just below 5.1k, the rest of the team was below 5k, we 9 manned up till BQL with me healing and nearly falling asleep on half of the fights, and we did them all easily. The only reason we didn't go past that is because we took a 10 minute break which resulted in me falling asleep. ICC is extremely easy, even in heroic.

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Originally Posted by Derpykins

You being too bad to do ICC at 5 and under doesn't mean it's meant for higher geared players. My first ICC, I was the highest at just below 5.1k, the rest of the team was below 5k, we 9 manned up till BQL with me healing and nearly falling asleep on half of the fights, and we did them all easily. The only reason we didn't go past that is because we took a 10 minute break which resulted in me falling asleep. ICC is extremely easy, even in heroic.

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ICC10 was meant for people in ilevel 245/258 gear, which puts you at 5.3kish gs. with the 30% buff that was later added, the gs requirements obviously dropped.

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Originally Posted by harthoran

ICC10 was meant for people in ilevel 245/258 gear, which puts you at 5.3kish gs. with the 30% buff that was later added, the gs requirements obviously dropped.

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When people first started doing ICC when it was first released, they weren't even in full epics. If people has 258 gear, there would be no reason to do ICC 10 which drops 251 gear. I don't know what the people on this server are thinking when it comes to gear requirements for raids.

Sir, it's all about your average warmane player. Is it possible? Probably. But I highly doubt that your normal "pugger" would be able to clear all of ICC with that low of ilevel.

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Originally Posted by harthoran

ICC10 was meant for people in ilevel 245/258 gear, which puts you at 5.3kish gs. with the 30% buff that was later added, the gs requirements obviously dropped.

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232-245 actually. Blizzard, since Ulduar, have tried to balance raids and ilvls so that groups can progress into the next raid tier equivalent content. Nowadays on Live, it's T19 normal -> T20 normal and T19 heroic -> T20 heroic. But for ToC -> ICC design, it was 10-man -> 10-man and 25-man -> 25man. This was largely because you had 10-man guilds and 25-man guilds. Forcing a 25-man guild to run/farm 10-man raids doesn't work well. 258 ilvl ToGC gear is from the 25-man raid, which exceeds the ilvl of ICC10 normal, but is only 6 ilvl under ICC25 normal. Blizzard's philosophy has always been that 5-6 ilvl is what they consider to be "the sweet spot" for an ilvl upgrade that actually feels like an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Derpykins

When people first started doing ICC when it was first released, they weren't even in full epics. If people has 258 gear, there would be no reason to do ICC 10 which drops 251 gear. I don't know what the people on this server are thinking when it comes to gear requirements for raids.

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Weren't in full epics? Are you talking about private servers or how Blizzard designed and tuned the raid? If we're talking about Blizzard's design, it most definitely was designed for people in full epics. As for a reason for 258 ilvl geared players to do 10 normal - you have to have someone who has defeated the Lich King on normal before you can access heroic.

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Originally Posted by Mercy

232-245 actually. Blizzard, since Ulduar, have tried to balance raids and ilvls so that groups can progress into the next raid tier equivalent content. Nowadays on Live, it's T19 normal -> T20 normal and T19 heroic -> T20 heroic. But for ToC -> ICC design, it was 10-man -> 10-man and 25-man -> 25man. This was largely because you had 10-man guilds and 25-man guilds. Forcing a 25-man guild to run/farm 10-man raids doesn't work well. 258 ilvl ToGC gear is from the 25-man raid, which exceeds the ilvl of ICC10 normal, but is only 6 ilvl under ICC25 normal. Blizzard's philosophy has always been that 5-6 ilvl is what they consider to be "the sweet spot" for an ilvl upgrade that actually feels like an upgrade.

Weren't in full epics? Are you talking about private servers or how Blizzard designed and tuned the raid? If we're talking about Blizzard's design, it most definitely was designed for people in full epics. As for a reason for 258 ilvl geared players to do 10 normal - you have to have someone who has defeated the Lich King on normal before you can access heroic.

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I'm talking about on retail. It wasn't odd to see people who still had some blue pieces in ICC. Personally, I'd rather do ICC with as low of gear as I possibly could in order to make it fun. ICC is a pretty easy raid, and if you are high geared, it's just boring, at least imo. But then again, I'm the kind of person who tries to tank FoS on a holy priest...fun times.

That would only happen because there would be characters that were max level for only a few days and would jump in ICC to get boosted. That happened to me too.