About prenerf raids : customizing things might be a necessity

I'm purely talking about the pve content and the gear : let's say all the encounters will be prenerf in heroic dungeons, kara, t4 and t5, will there be some custom tuning?
I know i'm far from being the minority around here, as warmane is not just about pvp, and this is how many will make a choice when it comes to picking a tbc server : no point in raiding in a post nerf t4 and t5 environment (the pre2.1 gear is another detail : the idea came from the fact that people used to raid with this version of the gear early on, which made raids harder. But of course, it's not the only solution to counter the issue : costumizing content might be a soluion).

As an example, on the old schaka's list (i believe it's 2 years old now though), you can see the verified values of t4 and t5 bosses, and the buffed values to counter the 2.4.3 talent trees AND the buffed gear.

What do you guys think? Should we ask for a buffed prenerf content, or just for prenerf + pre 2.1 gear undefinitely?

/discuss

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Originally Posted by sohren

Should we ask for a buffed prenerf content, or just for prenerf + pre 2.1 gear undefinitely?

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Yeah that would be a dream scenario, to have a buffed version of the raids, to make up for the buffs in 2.43. Because hard content is fun, where guilds have to work in order to clear and ofc to try to recreate how it was when it launched. And it was actually very hard. Even Vashj and Kael was guildbreakers.

But with nerfed content all across the expansion you can clear raids very easy. it was hard in start and for those of us that got to test it. It was an experiance. And i wish others could take apart of it.
Take Muru as an example we where stuck on that fight for months, then 2.4.3nerfs hit, and the brick wall was gone. Sure it was a good progression nerf. But still to many bosses in tbc was nerfed over 3 times

So yeah i am all for the Schaka's CC buff content. And from a server point of view they will loose out on the shop since content will be cleared faster and possibly player drop since many like it to be hard.

But it is alot of work, and it will push back the server launch by quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Toolt

Yeah that would be a dream scenario, to have a buffed version of the raids, to make up for the buffs in 2.43. Because hard content is fun, where guilds have to work in order to clear and ofc to try to recreate how it was when it launched. And it was actually very hard. Even Vashj and Kael was guildbreakers.

But with nerfed content all across the expansion you can clear raids very easy. it was hard in start and for those of us that got to test it. It was an experiance. And i wish others could take apart of it.
Take Muru as an example we where stuck on that fight for months, then 2.4.3nerfs hit, and the brick wall was gone. Sure it was a good progression nerf. But still to many bosses in tbc was nerfed over 3 times

So yeah i am all for the Schaka's CC buff content. And from a server point of view they will loose out on the shop since content will be cleared faster and possibly player drop since many like it to be hard.

But it is alot of work, and it will push back the server launch by quite a bit.

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eeeeh, not really : reverting the gear takes a couple days, and making raids prenerf is just about implementing the new values and timers. Of course, if we don't want to have a nerfed version of the gear, then we need to customize the content. Imo, i have yet to find a single person who would be against one of the two solutions, because it makes so much sense.

Very few are those who think that easy pve in an expansion such as tbc is actually a fun thing.

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Originally Posted by sohren

eeeeh, not really : reverting the gear takes a couple days, and making raids prenerf is just about implementing the new values and timers. Of course, if we don't want to have a nerfed version of the gear, then we need to customize the content. Imo, i have yet to find a single person who would be against one of the two solutions, because it makes so much sense.

Very few are those who think that easy pve in an expansion such as tbc is actually a fun thing.

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You make it sounds so simple, if you are talking about prenerf we are also talking about the minor things such as respawn timer on murloc SSC trash or the Attunements. Almost every fight in TBC and trash was nerfed muliple times during the expansion. Even Kara is nerfed to the ground.

Even if its only numbers, this still takes time.. and to not forget it needs a testing phase.

Yeah, there's a reason it took so much time for the only (few) server(s) to do it (tbc prenerf content right), i suppose.

What could possibly happen though, is them making this kind of thing on their next, x1, tbc server (lordaeron-style).

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Originally Posted by sohren

Yeah, there's a reason it took so much time for the only (few) server(s) to do it (tbc prenerf content right), i suppose.

What could possibly happen though, is them making this kind of thing on their next, x1, tbc server (lordaeron-style).

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Yeah i dont know, but i would love to play the prenerfed content again. But as you said many project have worked on this for years, and we still have not seen a perfect result.

But what i personally hope they do is to atleast try and make the big bosses harder again, and give us attunements back. Sure it was painful but it was a bridge that sort of delayed and prolonged content a bit. Damn that SHH t5 attuenment, it was not pretty but it was fun to try and fail and then boost others in guild.

Can we have an answer on how will be the encounters on live? If it's the same that atm on PTR no point to play for me. We are waiting for more than month now and we still didn't have a clear answer on the states of the encounters... If I loose all my week end to XP to 70 just to faceroll Karazhan Sunday in green stuff, I'll be very mad...

Since this realm will be p2w they wont implement this since it could slow down the gearing proccess, and they could lose a lot of money. I think they could implement this without any hesitation on an 1x realm without marketshop.

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Originally Posted by beerforceone

Since this realm will be p2w they wont implement this since it could slow down the gearing proccess, and they could lose a lot of money. I think they could implement this without any hesitation on an 1x realm without marketshop.

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Can't understand that logic, if they aimed to make it easy why they kept Heroic's keys at Revered just like in 2.1 and not Honored like in 2.4.3, same as mount at lvl 30 etc... Not reverting the stuff or making that the boss are harder than they where on retail is perfectly understandable but putting the encounters on post-nerf value is just weird and they didn't give a clear answer about that (or did I miss it?) so atm we are all guessing...

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Originally Posted by Vegzz

Can't understand that logic, if they aimed to make it easy why they kept Heroic's keys at Revered just like in 2.1 and not Honored like in 2.4.3, same as mount at lvl 30 etc... Not reverting the stuff or making that the boss are harder than they where on retail is perfectly understandable but putting the encounters on post-nerf value is just weird and they didn't give a clear answer about that (or did I miss it?) so atm we are all guessing...

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I'll have to admit that i'm not sure what to think about all this : on one hand it's clear that, on the ptr, many things have been scripted properly (although there's a lot of things that will need to get fixed in the future), on the other hand, i tried kara, and it's mind numbingly easy. I know what postnerf is like, and this is definitely even easier than this.

It doesn't mean they won't change it at all though, let's be patient : once the warmane community tries out all the tbc pve content, and talk about how underwhelming it is, they'll probably change it.