regarding the ninja looting

Hello everyone,

I just have question or maybe a point to raise.

Why would the server want to involve in raid leaders business, I mean blizzard havent, why would you make this banable? its up to everyones good reputation. Now hold on before you give me a ninja status, I am glad that simple ninja looting is punishable, pains me when I see RL selling the loot for gold, but I see gaps in the rule itself.
I imagine it must be pain for the staff as well to deal with this.

Now real life story

As I am used to Raid leading and I often did PUG/world runs on retail with my ALTS, from time to time it happens that you have 1 or 2 people who are terrible not just performance wise but you know the usual slacking, people dont care about mechanics, etc...

Now you may say why you havent kicked him, Imagine we are at the Grulls Lair we have cleared the first boss, and we had our painful experience before Grull, its one day after the weekly reset and nobody wants to make save with 1boss down already, or its just before the reset and you cannot find anyone whatever doesnt matter.
So you decide to keep a person, and you kill the boss anyway. Now someone else wants the same item, even if that guy would not be a guild mate but rolls less.
What should I do to not go against rules, give it to slacker?

This is just one example which happened

In my humble opinion that should be raid leaders business, honestly people decided to go with him, trust him, its his name, should be his decision to reward the raid (not himself that what the reserved/free loot is for if you are into such a things).
I have had a people joining in every week in the calendar with alts from all kinds of guilds, and so did others. Point being good RL will have people joining up the raid every time, and they trust his judgement, word gets around people will join, then you will be reported for actually being objective.

I would really love some clarity on this rule.

Kind regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nailter

What should I do to not go against rules, give it to slacker?

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If the raid rules stated at the beginning say they are the ones who should receive the item, yes. Simple as that. While you might create convoluted and intricate examples with a tiny chance to all come together and happen where you can try to claim they "didn't deserve it" (which can be absurdly subjective), the rules exist to protect players in the general, real examples that would happen daily otherwise, as they used to.

You say people trust the leader and if he steals something word will get around? Well, apply that to your slackers as well - you trusted the slacker, didn't kick them out when that was noticed for whatever reason, stuck with them until the loot division came; don't invite them ever again and get the word around.

Hi Obnoxious,

Thank you for quick reply,

Ok let me ask you this, If I say in the invitation process and thus make everyone aware, that me as RL have a right to "override" the roll due to slacking, not performing, leaving early etc. (not to my own profit obviously) and everyone agrees to proceed with a raid, does that change anything?

If I set up the expectations right away, as I tend to have these kind a raids weekly, and it will be visible on each LFM message, does that comply with a server rules?

Thank you :)

That would be up to GMs to decide, but I doubt it. As I said, that's ridiculously subjective and can easily be abused, ie. anyone who gets an item you want to hand someone else suddenly "didn't perform well enough." Raid rules have to be simple and objective, not up to interpretation and personal bias, so I personally wouldn't be surprised if you got reported and that sort of rule completely ignored in the decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

That would be up to GMs to decide, but I doubt it. As I said, that's ridiculously subjective and can easily be abused, ie. anyone who gets an item you want to hand someone else suddenly "didn't perform well enough." Raid rules have to be simple and objective, not up to interpretation and personal bias, so I personally wouldn't be surprised if you got reported and that sort of rule completely ignored in the decision.

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Understood, and thank you for your reply.

Is there any chance a GM can share some thought about this?
I dont think that the rule itself is objective at all, like Ive said I dont think this should be up to server staff to deal with.
And I understand your concern, this would definately get abused. Thats why people would be reluctant to join raid with such a rule, thus only the honest raids would succeed.
But anyway, perhaps the general opinion is different than mine.

One more thing, if the guild Raid Leader has a power to give or take DKP inside the guild and thus "decide" who gets the loot, isnt it pretty much the same deal?

Thank you
Kind regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nailter

Understood, and thank you for your reply.

Is there any chance a GM can share some thought about this?
I dont think that the rule itself is objective at all, like Ive said I dont think this should be up to server staff to deal with.
And I understand your concern, this would definately get abused. Thats why people would be reluctant to join raid with such a rule, thus only the honest raids would succeed.
But anyway, perhaps the general opinion is different than mine.

One more thing, if the guild Raid Leader has a power to give or take DKP inside the guild and thus "decide" who gets the loot, isnt it pretty much the same deal?

Thank you
Kind regards

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The rule is actually very objective and simple: the loot rules stated at the start have to be followed to the letter; any changes have to be done beforehand, before drops and before people would be hindered if they leave the raid because of the updated rules. Basically, follow your own stated loot rules precisely. I can't see the subjectivity on that.

Your example might have similarities, but they are different circumstances. We're not talking about internal Guild rules, and those rules are a much larger commitment than just a spare raid, and people who join the Guild will know beforehand about that. There's no parallel beyond the shared similarities on both doing raids. No, I wouldn't suggest you trying to loophole the rules by creating a guild and inviting anyone in your raid group, just so you can give the loot however you like. That just says "forced disband" to me, personally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

No, I wouldn't suggest you trying to loophole the rules by creating a guild and inviting anyone in your raid group, just so you can give the loot however you like. That just says "forced disband" to me, personally.

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I havent even thought about that, but yet that is another loop hole, anyway like you have said rules are clear. Although not objective in my opinion.
For others sake, you might consider adding a sentence or two there to fill the gap I was asking about.

Thank you
Kind regards

Everything is covered here:

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922

Anything else, you may contact Head GM Aldtharios.