Warmane, we have a suggestion

Hello Warmane and folks,

I am a firm fighter against changing the nature of the server in any way, but I do have few suggestions, which are pretty much quite the opposite about what I argued for so far.

First. I did ask several of my friend list members whe I saw their toons for sale, why they are actually selling them. It does appear that lvl 80 content is a bit too challenging for everybody literally and quite a bit more demanding that it should. I really like how this is not pug - icc25 farm fest server, but I do believe that some major and minor changes can be done to preserve the population of this server.

First of all - no, rdf is just not going to get more population for this server in a good way, it will just increase lvl 1-79 population only, and eventually they might get into the real trouble that in majority of the answers this was contained -

- It is indeed too hard to get gear currently,as you are demanded higher gear for lesser instances such as icc 25.
- You actually can't get into pugs unless you have already gear from the place you are pugging for.
- You can't get into guilds as it requires above pug-level gear from icc
- For end-game guilds ICC 25 heroic LK is "not doable"

What led me to opening this threat is the increasing people of leaving the realm simply because of difficulty. There is nothing like a blizz-like 1xserver, but those custom features I believe are simply ahead of their time.

Second factor is that top guild members are selling their mains on the trade market. That means that top guilds are already starting on giving up on this task, which is pretty fun, but I am not one to tell if doable or not .


To preserve healthy population for the server and prevent massive migration after a certain population point, my personal opinion would be that we can do the following.



Get the server either to standard features and then eventually when complete end-game content comes out and gets cleared, set up hardmode (the custom changes) even for normal to present a real challenge to the players as it was intented, and in the spirit of progression that would be totally acceptable.

Or


Tweek down only the custom changes to a bit more doable level, to give to pugs a bit more backbone as well as new guilds to prevent them from disbanding, and of course give the top guilds their server's first kill.

Once Ruby Sanctum comes out and gets cleared up I suppose that going for progression towards the current changes which, again I don't dislike, just feel a bit ahead of their time for a server that is currently populated with quite a lot of players that might, or will never ever go beyond saurfang in 25 on the current pace we are progressing.

After the big dedicated guilds disband, which is already happening on alliance side, 2 are remaining doing ICC 25 man heroic content with a real progress, the server will follow very short after, simply because right now you can see people with items from a content you are looking forward to, but once the progression becomes stagnant people will just force out.

This is not a QQ threat that should have our communities buthurt expressed in comments if possible, we would really like to get a GM to say what is their opinion about this, if they could consider, if it is considerable, and what potentially they have planned for the upcoming months. If you have different suggestions than making it completely blizzlike feel free to comment, otherwise, pleasee do not turn this threat into another one of the other topics that you can read each reply to contain at least once "server is dead" "it is too late now" "rdf please". I believe the above mentioned ideas are more than enough downgrading the difficulty of the realm, and we would like to know what is the current plan that our GMs have for the server.

And no, this is not because the server is that hard, it is hard, but not that hard, but rather that many players are leaving because of the custom changes status right now on our current equipment and it would lead eventually to a burst of migration once we hit a certian point which is simply something we can avoid.

I got a suggestion for you; make a TL;DR section because I can assure you nobody here is gonna read that wall of text.

Yea i reached bullet points and that wasnt the suggestion , so i gave up reading

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First of all - no, rdf is just not going to get more population for this server in a good way, it will just increase lvl 1-79 population only

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The one defense I see from Warmane regarding raid difficulty being unchanged is that the population is increasing. OK - if we know raiders/top guilds are hemorrhaging/quitting/moving to other realms, then it must be NEW players joining the realm. Of COURSE it would only increase the 1-79 population as that is who it primarily benefits from RDF. WTF kind of reasoning is this; we shouldn't enable RDF because it would increase how many people come to the realm? Are you suggesting people would leave the server before getting to 80 solely because RDF is enabled? How does this negatively affect you as a level 80 focused on raiding? How would enabling RDF be anything other than a net benefit for the individuals leveling their characters, making it easier and quicker to get into instances, and thus to 80? Why is it whenever someone argues against RDF is always seems like those who are at 80 want every other player to level without RDF because they did it without RDF and "muh xcore realm"? It's not like enabling RDF makes the instance difficulty any easier.

And the same goes with herilooms. Who cares if someone wants to spend their emblems on heirlooms to make leveling alts slightly less painful? How does this affect anyone else besides the individual utilizing these features? These are retail features, not some special custom feature that casts a shadow on the Blizz-like nature of the realm.

Otherwise, I agree with the post. I understand the realm's fetish with having a super xcore realm but this is not feasible for a majority of the players. And I am not suggesting making all raids Blizz-like, but nerf them a good 25% so it's not a matter of needing to get carried in these raids before you can routinely get invited. Raids will not be RDF'd and those they are will fail before they begin, and players who are unable to play their toon will not be invited back/kicked from the group, even after a nerf.

Furthermore, how can the realm/devs/GMs/whatever expect newer raiders go through the same grueling process, only to get tired and sick of it and quit? This isn't sustainable for long-term realm longevity. If you look at what people from the two top raiding guilds are suggesting for Outland/Medivh, it's to not make it so XxXhArDcOrExXx because it's obviously not a good decision as an overwhelming majority of the playerbase does not fit into this category. Buffing it a bit so it's not a faceroll like retail, fine, but excess buffing is so unnecessary.

Imo Warmane should change their philosophy regarding Lordaeron.

There is no need for hard mode raids, the blizzlike normal/heroic modes are already hard enough.
There is no need to disable rdf, questing gives in any case more XP.
There is no need to disable heirloom, ppl that would be able to acquire them already have a 80 and farmed emblems.

Go away from this hardcore concept, that only makes ppl leave the realm.
Just make Lordaeron a blizzlike x1 realm.

I like Lordaeron's idea.

- I always dreamed about a server like Lordaeron and now that I found I'm playing with all my friends, we are pretty new to the server and enjoyng a lot.

- This concept of hardcore amuse us cause its really seems that our hard work worth a lot. We have all the same gear of anybody else if not better (with heirloom would be a pretty disappoint see everybody geared).

- This hardmode altho seems very hard its very fun to see that the end game is not FULL completed yet, giving us the energy to build up our own guild to try it out and be something influential on the server.

- As a "new WotLK player" (only played wow before the cataclyms) like all my friends, the RDF disabled showed us how big is the world of azeroth and did make we live some adventures (some interesting pvp encounters too). Its not that hard send two players to the meeting stone, c'mon guys.

- Lordaeron is an unique server and should be honored by that. :)

Lordaeron is the reason that WotLK is my favorite expansion now, even I didn't reach close to the late/end game (we are all currently level 5x).

If you don't like the hardcore mmo aspect, there always will be Icecrown to play which is an awesome server too!

I agree with you on everything OP except for the criticisms that Frysharry made.

But unfortunately, as constructive as this is, it's proven to be a wasted effort: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=346824 observe the last 4-5 pages to see what I mean in regards to constructive opinions being squashed by Warmane staff.

Warmane is less than enthusiastic about making changes to Lordearon, if the above thread is any indication to the shared opinion of the staff.

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Originally Posted by BeyondGodLike

I like Lordaeron's idea.

- I always dreamed about a server like Lordaeron and now that I found I'm playing with all my friends, we are pretty new to the server and enjoyng a lot.

- This concept of hardcore amuse us cause its really seems that our hard work worth a lot. We have all the same gear of anybody else if not better (with heirloom would be a pretty disappoint see everybody geared).

- This hardmode altho seems very hard its very fun to see that the end game is not FULL completed yet, giving us the energy to build up our own guild to try it out and be something influential on the server.

- As a "new WotLK player" (only played wow before the cataclyms) like all my friends, the RDF disabled showed us how big is the world of azeroth and did make we live some adventures (some interesting pvp encounters too). Its not that hard send two players to the meeting stone, c'mon guys.

- Lordaeron is an unique server and should be honored by that. :)

Lordaeron is the reason that WotLK is my favorite expansion now, even I didn't reach close to the late/end game (we are all currently level 5x).

If you don't like the hardcore mmo aspect, there always will be Icecrown to play which is an awesome server too!

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I really like your enthusiasm and wish you and your friends the best of luck on Lordaeron but for the sake of the OP's point on view in this post the fact you have no experience playing retail WotLK and from the sound of it (reading your post here) you haven't quite reached end-game on Lordaeron makes it kind of reckless to comment on the condition of its end-game don't you think? It could be that all of your fun and adventures prove to be futile because the learning curve could be too steep for players with little experience in end-game raiding.. which is more or less the point the OP is trying to make.

them ain problem was that the we only had the chance to vote about naxxramas difficulty. a lot of people started lord knowing the hardcore naxx and no rdf(which nobody cares about anyway). but there should have been talks with topguild before new content release about difficulty. icc made most guild quit and now we have 1heroic raiding guild per faction.

our alt run is the 2nd best icc progress grp on alliance side..
Another thing was there was no real PTR for icc heroic with these custom buffs. and some bosses who are considered hard (bq,prof) are now easier than entry lvl bosses (marrowgar,lady) especially in combination with bugs(which we could live with if not evey fight was <1s enrage timer).

Now its july more and more people with good gear quit or go on longer vacation and whatever. and you have 0 chance to repalce these people because theres no alternative guilds even close and have to longterm welfare eequip half the server in your alt group.

This is neither fun for the "casual" players nor for us.

After 4month why are there also no words about strength of wrynn buff?
There was a discussion thread before/during lordaeron launch and most people wanted it to be added like on retail from time to time.
And the tryhard ones who said no to it , well im sure they probably dont even play on lordaeron anymore.

Empyrean said in another thread he forwarded some stuff to the staff.

i guess we just have to wait and pray if anything is going to happen.

@beyondgodlike we also like this hardmode aspect. but its over the top currently on lordaeron. average/low guilds wont magically jump to heroic 11/12hc as we are now with 5% and for us 10/12hc is farmstatus. but even we hardcore guilds who are 11/12hc wont sustain for more longer if we lose 1-2player every two week and have a hard time to find any replacement.
a 5% wrynn buff wont lead to a lk heroic kill aswell. but we could invest less time in farm content and focus more on alt grp and/or can easier bring a new "good" lower geared people to mainraid for them to catch up and make lk heroic ready. aswell other guilds may get few bosses more (escpecially dbs normal is big gatekeeper for pugs and average guilds, who could get to 8-9 bosses instead 3 could make the raid community happy on lord hardcore raiders and average). its 4months which is a long time and even in total only 9guilds killed lich king NORMAL and half of them dont exist anymore and had to merge into the others. tbc realm didnt help aswell to keep raiders motivated :(

The issue with Icecrown Citadel's current difficulty and inability to be completed was brought up a couple days ago, when Palutena received a reply that the release of Ruby Sanctum was contingent to that. A list of players' posts was collected to expose how more relaxed guilds had no chance of completing it and even hardcore ones, with experienced players and the best gear they could get, couldn't complete it once, and all that information was taken by her to the Development Team. I personally believe tweaks are going to happen, since the aim of Lordaeron is to be challenging, not outright impossible, nor to have something impossible blockading further content.

cool sounds good:)

what about the old raids?

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Originally Posted by rumbleshotz

cool sounds good:)

what about the old raids?

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About those I don't have anything, especially as they seem to be doable in general. Icecrown Citadel was a special case since even the top guilds aren't managing it and that's blocking further content, so I gathered those posts for Palutena. If you have any other specific ones that are simply way too hard, give details and data so those can be forwarded too.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

About those I don't have anything, especially as they seem to be doable in general. Icecrown Citadel was a special case since even the top guilds aren't managing it and that's blocking further content, so I gathered those posts for Palutena. If you have any other specific ones that are simply way too hard, give details and data so those can be forwarded too.

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well not too hard for topguild like us. but average guilds and/or pug even for an achiev/mog or for to minmax gear because toc normal, ony,iccrown 5mans, voa , boe items just reward you with more and prepare for icc with a lot less work compared to do uld25, togc10/25 currently.

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Originally Posted by rumbleshotz

well not too hard for topguild like us. but average guilds and/or pug even for an achiev/mog or for to minmax gear because toc normal, ony,iccrown 5mans, voa , boe items just reward you with more and prepare for icc with a lot less work compared to do uld25, togc10/25 currently.

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I'd need more than that to make a case about tweaking the difficulty of those. It being challenging is the aim of the server, as I said, so there needs to be a better basis to show it as being not a case of "get more experience and you'll succeed," but one of "only really good players with years of experience will ever be able to do it, so most people are left out."

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I'd need more than that to make a case about tweaking the difficulty of those. It being challenging is the aim of the server, as I said, so there needs to be a better basis to show it as being not a case of "get more experience and you'll succeed," but one of "only really good players with years of experience will ever be able to do it, so most people are left out."

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Yes im not saying its not doable especially with 264 gear available to most player you outgear naxx-togc. But my point these raids are just left out because theyitemlvl they awared is not worth the effort if people can get better stuff with less effort.
exception are ony10/25,voa,toc10 and toc25 4/5 which are done frequently but i cant remember the last time someone entered ulduar or togc10 on this server. togc25 should stay as it is since it still awards toploot especially the trinkets only problem there are the adds on anub which require a perfect geared blocktank. we nor memories didnt do togc25 since 3 or 4months just because insanity is a pain in the *** not because anub itself is overtuend but the adds but i think there were already bugreports way before icc release(think was something with their level which need abnormal perfect blockgear)

but raids like uld(226/239ilvl),togc10(245ilvl),naxx(200/213) stuff could need a tweak aswell just because people skip them now and they would bring some diversity in gearing for new players and alts and realm could be more active if people would do some older raids next to icc only and the 30min toc normal/ony/voa stuff.

It doesnt help if old ocntent raids are challenge and all but nobody visits. atleast we didnt do any naxx,togc,uld since forever because its not worth to gather them 1-2pieces that could be used with the work needed for it.

atleast thats our view maybe there is some data that shows how many groupes raided something but i really doubt on alliance side anyone entered them except for weekly quest in months.(fl,naxx10)