State of PVP from my POV

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December 30, 2017
AriveAlive

State of PVP from my POV

I have been playing since August when Alliance had the increased buffs to encourage people to play more alliance. As the summer ended and fall began the battlegrounds were roughly even. I enjoyed playing my hunter and gearing him completely out with s1&s2 pvp gear. This continued until recently when I noticed more and more people switching over to alliance for whatever reasons so the battlegrounds became difficult which I was fine with. The AV's had around 20-30 people(if that) so as horde our strategy was to kill balinda asap before the game would end. The first day I logged on after s3 "started" each AV had 40 alliance and horde and the entire battleground changed. It was now complete rushes to the towers/bunkers and final boss. 90% of the time now, noone and I mean noone gets more than 10 honorable kills before it ends. Before the PVP ranks were included(which I really think added some spice to PVP)the honorable kills were much much higher and the BG's were not being complete rushed. Now horde lose a vast majority of AV and instead of being excited for s3 and having s2 gear on the market(oh wait....)I am left with no excitement to get on this PVP imbalanced server. Also, when I say imbalanced, I mean imbalance of skill/gear NOT population.
December 30, 2017
tankertom

I have gotten about 170 AV marks in the last month. probably about 60-70% winrate. But yes people rush the opposing teams base. All offense is how you win AV fastest. and if you lose, at least its a fast loss. I don't think there is any getting around this. With new s3 offset pieces costing honor and S1 mainset now available for honor people just want the fastest honor. Not all of us had the foresight to save up 75k honor. I agree with you thats its not the classic spirit of a 4 hour (or longer) AV. if you really wanted that you could create a boss 5 man premade group and do some defending.
December 30, 2017
MaXiMuS54

Sounds rather lame, on Icecrown we usually play to kill until the team is farmed in a graveyard
December 30, 2017
tankertom

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaXiMuS54

Sounds rather lame, on Icecrown we usually play to kill until the team is farmed in a graveyard

This is the other extreme, ignore objective and just farm kills. I guess the best would be something in between? As much as we want it to be this game will never be like BC actually was, too much time has passed, people already know whats coming, and people generally seem to play MMOs differently since then.
December 30, 2017
H4T3

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankertom

This is the other extreme, ignore objective and just farm kills. I guess the best would be something in between? As much as we want it to be this game will never be like BC actually was, too much time has passed, people already know whats coming, and people generally seem to play MMOs differently since then.

I agree, each BG has an objective and getting it done should be the priority. Honored kills or skirmish is secondary. Besides, nobody wants longer BGs and AV is usually longest as compared to others.

Also, the way AV is designed, people can ignore the killing and go straight of objectives but same cannot be said for other Battlegrounds where skirmish is inevitable.

So we can blame state of PVP in "AV". PVP in general is fine.
December 30, 2017
tankertom

Quote:

Originally Posted by H4T3

I agree, each BG has an objective and getting it done should be the priority. Honored kills or skirmish is secondary. Besides, nobody wants longer BGs and AV is usually longest as compared to others.

Also, the way AV is designed, people can ignore the killing and go straight of objectives but same cannot be said for other Battlegrounds where skirmish is inevitable.

So we can blame state of PVP in "AV". PVP in general is fine.

BUT, i get what OP is saying. AV is lifeless currently. People rush the opposing base. sit half afk while towers cap then kill the boss. or they lose before that if the other team is quicker.

A big AV 30vs30 deathmarch is one of the most fun pvp events in WOW in my opinion. not every game, but it is fun somtimes. I think OP might be looking for Vanilla AV
December 30, 2017
H4T3

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankertom

BUT, i get what OP is saying. AV is lifeless currently. People rush the opposing base. sit half afk while towers cap then kill the boss. or they lose before that if the other team is quicker.

A big AV 30vs30 deathmarch is one of the most fun pvp events in WOW in my opinion. not every game, but it is fun somtimes. I think OP might be looking for Vanilla AV

Hah, I think it's the opposite. AV is not lifeless. Actually it's full of life i.e. when people have a life, they tend to do a faster AV :D. Whereas if they have "no life" (i.e. lifeless) they'll do an endless killing and prolong AV.

OP is complaining about AV but we should also consider it a "Battleground" with objectives. Although it's fun, yet killing each other is not necessary in Battlegrounds. All you have to do is "stop" the enemy from doing something and you can stop them without killing them (except in WSG).

Not many people would agree with me but I don't consider Battlegrounds a true PVP. To me it's just a daily quest and a "source" to get Marks to get better gear. But True PVP would be World PVP and / or Arena.

I'm new here and perhaps in no position for giving my opinion but in my old TBC, I was very active in Battlegrounds and almost scored 26k honorable kills with S4 Gear (except shoulders) and weapon.
https://pictr.com/images/2017/12/30/...10d7020.md.jpg
December 30, 2017
Jakkre

Every time I do a BG I ask myself the same question:
Why the heck does it bother nobody else that there is no out of line in BGs?
Shooting through tree stumps in WSG, AoEing through towers in AV and even shooting through entire mountains. There is no out of line whatsoever and everybody seems to be fine with it.

P.S. Yesterday I have noticed that its even in the Arena possible to hit through pillars on opponents on the other side.
December 30, 2017
SunnyvaleTB

All I hear is or was a geared out hunter crying he doesnt get to farm noobs in mid... Defend your base if u want hks .. oh wait no where for u to hide and lob arrows without getting swarmed? wah wah wah
December 31, 2017
MaXiMuS54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

Every time I do a BG I ask myself the same question:
Why the heck does it bother nobody else that there is no out of line in BGs?
Shooting through tree stumps in WSG, AoEing through towers in AV and even shooting through entire mountains. There is no out of line whatsoever and everybody seems to be fine with it.

P.S. Yesterday I have noticed that its even in the Arena possible to hit through pillars on opponents on the other side.

Yeah they made some change months ago where LoS was basically removed from existence cuz apparently thats what it was back then, though it was reversed on icecrown.
December 31, 2017
H4T3

Haha, we all have different opinions and that's the beauty of MMOs.
WOW (especially battlegrounds) is all about collective effort. The moment you join Battleground, you're not individual anymore, you're part of a unit and like real life, you can't stand alone. Just follow what everyone's doing :D.
December 31, 2017
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaXiMuS54

Yeah they made some change months ago where LoS was basically removed from existence cuz apparently thats what it was back then, though it was reversed on icecrown.

Yeah I know.
Its about damn time to implement this improved LoS mechanics on TBC aswell.
December 31, 2017
Ricksyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakkre

Yeah I know.
Its about damn time to implement this improved LoS mechanics on TBC aswell.

It's quite simple.

Only actual buildings block LoS on retail, even to this day you can shoot through trees and stuff.
Also melee auto-attack has always ignored all LoS, the only thing it cares about is if you are in melee range or not. Same on retail to this day.

Believe it or not the line of sight you seem to be used to was just an old TC/Mangos bug. It was basically unknowingly implemented wrong from the start.
December 31, 2017
MaXiMuS54

Attacking through LoS totally ruins pvp. You just get a whole group of rdps and healers and if they feel threatened they go to a stump where they promptly slaughter the enemy team as they kite them. No reason at all to be a melee, especially in a premade. They'll be outplayed hard.
December 31, 2017
Jakkre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricksyo

It's quite simple.

Only actual buildings block LoS on retail, even to this day you can shoot through trees and stuff.
Also melee auto-attack has always ignored all LoS, the only thing it cares about is if you are in melee range or not. Same on retail to this day.

Melee attacks don't ignore LoS on retail.
Its not possible on retail to hit with melee attacks through the wall of a tower room in AV. Also u can't hit through a pillar in the arena.

Like MaXiMuS54 said, PvP really gets ruined without LoS.
Deffending a tower in AV is a complete joke when a mage can stay at the bottom of a tower and spam blizzard on deffender inside the tower room or when melee opponents run up the tower and hit from outside of the tower, through the wall, on players inside the tower room.
U can't even call this PvP, it's just a "who can abuse LoS the most" feast.

Why not just make a flat map with no objects whatsoever and put a flag on both sides? Whats the purpose of objects when u can hit and shoot through everything?

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