Mage fire Optimize DPS on Mage or Lost?

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February 9, 2018
edgar19

Mage fire Optimize DPS or Lost?

I always heard about use every Hot Streak proc but what will be the best resolution on this little problem described above. You have up full 2t10 bonus and a Hot Streak proc, in that case(supposing that you can only fit 2 FB with 2t10proc) and your next 2 FB dont crit:

a) cast again HS and keep spaming FB until the next HS.
b) cast 1 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.
c) cast 2 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.

Could be the c) option the best on this case just to have the 2t10proc again in case that those 2 FB dont crit?

sorry for bad english
February 10, 2018
TinyToys

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgar19

I always heard about use every Hot Streak proc but what will be the best resolution on this little problem described above. You have up full 2t10 bonus and a Hot Streak proc, in that case(supposing that you can only fit 2 FB with 2t10proc) and your next 2 FB dont crit:

a) cast again HS and keep spaming FB until the next HS.
b) cast 1 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.
c) cast 2 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.

Could be the c) option the best on this case just to have the 2t10proc again in case that those 2 FB dont crit?

sorry for bad english

It depend on two criteria.
First your amount of crit (during the fight, like real crit on your target not only what you see on your character page)
Second your distance from you target

If you have enough crit more then 2FB out of 3 (approximatly)
You will proc HS very easely so in this case you don't have to care about maintaining the 2T10 bonus, he will be enough reset.
In this case always use the HS available as soon as possible, don't delay it.
This include refreshing a LB and launching a pyro in a row without FB between. In this case you must be at atleast 30 meter range from your target in order to have a landing time for your FB longer then your GCD (produce by you refreshing your LB) in order to have time to use your HS proc before the FB actually hit the target (and maybe create a new HS proc).

If you have not a decent/good amount of crit, you will gain by maximizing your 2T10 uptime, use case b) or c) assuming the fact c) is in the case you have a extremely low amount of crit.

If you have any other technical question, or if you need precision about a point do not hesitate to tell me.

See u

Tiny.
February 10, 2018
DarkenedHue

It's a DPS gain to avoid having a new t10 2p proc prematurely over-write a previous one if, and only if, you don't end up losing a HS proc in the process.

Quote:

a) cast again HS and keep spaming FB until the next HS.
b) cast 1 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.
c) cast 2 FB(to use the 2t10proc), then HS.

If you're going to do options (b) or (c), make sure you're roughly tracking your crit counter. If you already just had 1 spell crit, you can squeeze in 1 more Fireball before using that HS proc. This way, in case that Fireball also crits and procs a fresh HS, it wouldn't be a DPS loss because you'd have already used the first HS. If your crit counter stands at 0, then you can cast 2 Fireballs and then use the HS after (assuming the 2 Fireball casts are buffed by the t10 2p).

In general, it is very common for a Fire Mage to hold on to his Hot Streak and cast 1 more FIreball before using it so as to maximize his t10 2p uptime. This is only done when you know the HS won't be over-written. You do this by a) very roughly keeping an estimate of your Fireball counts, and b) ensuring that your Living Bomb isn't about to finish ticking, since that might proc a HS too. This is one of the ways you min-max the DPS of the spec so it's good that this occurred to you on your own.
February 10, 2018
edgar19

thx both for his answers, i think the best way to try to predict those moves is with 1 crit counter like DarkenedHue say, somenthing that told you "hey your next crit will HS" on that way you can go safe for b) or c) , choose b) when your previus spell has been crit and the counter its on 1 or chosse c) if you have the counter on 0, what do you think?
February 10, 2018
DarkenedHue

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgar19

thx both for his answers, i think the best way to try to predict those moves is with 1 crit counter like DarkenedHue say, somenthing that told you "hey your next crit will HS" on that way you can go safe for b) or c) , choose b) when your previus spell has been crit and the counter its on 1 or chosse c) if you have the counter on 0, what do you think?

The thing about (c) is that realistically, you probably will not have cast that 2nd Fireball under the effect of the t10 2p buff. If you can manage to get off 2 Fireball casts with the 12% haste buff, and your crit counter is at 0, only then will (c) become preferable.

(b) is the easiest and safest thing to always default to. So whenever you have a HS proc but your t10 2p buff is still up, cast 1 more Fireball before expending that Hot Streak unless you have more nukes on the way to their boss that might land and proc HS, or your Living Bomb(s) is/are about to blow up.
February 12, 2018
edgar19

yeah that i want to know, is not always a good choice spam HS once you get the proc(depends). I have another doubt... you have HS proc and LB is not up, you first cast HS or LB? or depends of how much haste you have to fit LB FB FB under 2t10proc?
February 12, 2018
DarkenedHue

Assuming that you wouldn't be over-writing a current Pushing the Limits proc, and that your subsequent PtL proc isn't over-written either by a shortly imminent HS proc:

- If your haste is high enough for you to be able to squeeze in 3 Fireballs in a PtL window (this is something like 1000+ haste with raid buffs - you basically have to be near BiS and need very good latency), you LB first, and then you use the HS.

If you used LB after the HS, the LB would cut into the duration of the PtL proc, thus you would only be able to cast 2 Fireballs under the PtL effect at max. Since one Fireball benefiting from the 12% haste buff is better than one Living Bomb benefiting from it, you go for the option that lets you apply the haste buff to 3 Fireballs. Again, this is something you need very good gear and near-perfect latency to be able to take advantage of. Under the effect of very high haste buffs (say Bloodlust, or troll racial + Potion of Speed), you might even be able to squeeze in a 4th Fireball in the PtL window. This is the most ideal possible scenario, since under BL, LB is already gcd-capped and wouldn't benefit from the 12% haste whatsoever, so it might be in your interests to keep LB uses outside of PtL windows as much as possible (unless of course you're getting so many HS procs the buff is basically always up anyway, which is possible).

- If your Haste isn't high enough that you'd be able to get in a 3rd Fireball, go ahead and use the HS first. This lets you at least hasten the GCD of your next LB so you still have 3 spells benefit from it (HS > LB > 2x Fireballs).
February 13, 2018
edgar19

ohhh tnx alot i noticed now that i was doing the things wrong on that scenario
February 14, 2018
TinyToys

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkenedHue

- If your Haste isn't high enough that you'd be able to get in a 3rd Fireball, go ahead and use the HS first. This lets you at least hasten the GCD of your next LB so you still have 3 spells benefit from it (HS > LB > 2x Fireballs).

I'm ok with the rest but on this point. I think it may be better to even in this situation refresh the LB first in order to increase the LB uptime overall.
February 14, 2018
DarkenedHue

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyToys

II think it may be better to even in this situation refresh the LB first in order to increase the LB uptime overall.

Assuming your GCD was 1.12 seconds and the PtL proc would GCD-cap you, by refreshing the LB first, you'd get:
- 1.12 secs more of LB uptime, at the cost of
- pushing your rotation back by 0.12 seconds

I'll take the numbers from my rawr set-up for this example: I'm set up to do 20031 dps, and one LB use is worth 25290.972 damage, over its 12 seconds (very roughly speaking; we know that LB damage is actually much more back-loaded than evenly distributed).

1.12 sec more of LB uptime would therefore translate into about 1.12/12 = 2360.5 more damage. However, being set back by 0.12 seconds would cost 0.12 x 20031 = 2403 damage.

So yeah, it's pretty much a wash if your haste is such that you have a 1.12 sec or so GCD, which is I think anything less than 900 haste. Above that, increasing your LB's uptime would become the favorable option because you're not setting your rotation back that much.
February 14, 2018
TinyToys

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkenedHue

Assuming your GCD was 1.12 seconds and the PtL proc would GCD-cap you, by refreshing the LB first, you'd get:
- 1.12 secs more of LB uptime, at the cost of
- pushing your rotation back by 0.12 seconds

I'll take the numbers from my rawr set-up for this example: I'm set up to do 20031 dps, and one LB use is worth 25290.972 damage, over its 12 seconds (very roughly speaking; we know that LB damage is actually much more back-loaded than evenly distributed).

1.12 sec more of LB uptime would therefore translate into about 1.12/12 = 2360.5 more damage. However, being set back by 0.12 seconds would cost 0.12 x 20031 = 2403 damage.

So yeah, it's pretty much a wash if your haste is such that you have a 1.12 sec or so GCD, which is I think anything less than 900 haste. Above that, increasing your LB's uptime would become the favorable option because you're not setting your rotation back that much.

Nice thank you for the precisions, I didn't the test before, was more like a feeling, and according to my haste (1K+) my feeling (maximize the LB uptime) seem to be good.

Tiny.