The Icecrown BG scene is awful

Lately I've been doing a lot of solo queue bgs on both Icecrown and Frostwolf, and I would say that good, close bgs have been about four times more common on Frostwolf than Icecrown. It's basically a rare occurrence on Icecrown to get a truly close, fun game. And with deserter being 15 mins as opposed to 5 mins in MoP, leaving the bg early is a lot more painful.

I think a big part of the reason are the AV enabler premades on Icecrown. I'm not hating- I've participated in them myself- but it just gives the bg scene a trollish quality. The whole mentality seems to be "we may not be having an exciting game, but it's better than getting farmed in the graveyard like you." I'm not even sure that Icecrown bgers realize how bad the scene is, since they are used to it.

It would be nice to see the big pvp guilds on Icecrown get away from the feeling that they absolutely can't queue up if there's the slightest possibility they might not have nine 6.2k+ gs team-mates with them. There is actually such a thing as a bg scene in which players on both teams have fun and they try to promote a healthy competitive scene instead of trying for the most overwhelming advantage possible.

I honestly think the main issue in regards to Icecrown's PvP scene is the insane faction imbalance between Horde and Alliance when it comes to having geared PvPers. Besides if you want to remove the ability to premade you need to give the Horde side some serious buffs or they won't be able to cope with the unbalance for long. So many have left for Alliance as of late.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

I honestly think the main issue in regards to Icecrown's PvP scene is the insane faction imbalance between Horde and Alliance when it comes to having geared PvPers. Besides if you want to remove the ability to premade you need to give the Horde side some serious buffs or they won't be able to cope with the unbalance for long. So many have left for Alliance as of late.

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this, absolutely.
I play with toons on both sides and it's just not fun on horde side to get camped on gy at least 2 out of 3 matches. But I did the change with two of my characters nevertheless. If nobody does the same, the situation will still keeping to get worse.

I don't think there is an Alliance/Horde imbalance, but all BGs are imbalanced. 90% of them end with one team farming the other. From the first fight you already know who's going to win: just sort the scoreboard by honourable kills.

This situation is not optimal, but it's normal because too many people are bis since the realm is very old. I suppose this is the last stage of the lifecycle of a realm.

There isn't anything that can be done. You will always feel like you're the one being farmed, but I recommend you to switch factions and you'll see that's not the case. I recommend you find a pvp guild and do premades to increase your chances of winning if that matters to you. Otherwise, alt+tab as soon as you see it's a losing BG and wait for the next one.

might just be cause i have 4 geared chars and just log another when i get into a garbage can farmfest av or something but I think icecrown bgs are fine.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

I don't think there is an Alliance/Horde imbalance, but all BGs are imbalanced. 90% of them end with one team farming the other.

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Yes, that's my Icecrown experience as well, but it's not just a gear problem. The AV enabler mindset where you cram 10 of your guys into a bg is something I never saw on Frostwolf. I'm not even sure AV enabler works there. Nowadays premades aren't even that big a thing on Frostwolf and see see a lot of guys like myself with both geared ally and horde toons who will play whichever faction needs the most help at a given time. It would be nice to see that kind of mindset on Icecrown.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

I don't think there is an Alliance/Horde imbalance, but all BGs are imbalanced. 90% of them end with one team farming the other. From the first fight you already know who's going to win: just sort the scoreboard by honourable kills.

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When we speak of a Horde/Alliance imbalance we talk about the number of active PvPers per side and also the quality of the gear of those PvPers. In this case I would dare to say the ratio of BiS geared PvPers are 1:8 Icecrown (this is from my personal observations). Yet you are correct, one can pretty much decide the outcome of all battles before even 1 minute has passed since the start.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

This situation is not optimal, but it's normal because too many people are bis since the realm is very old. I suppose this is the last stage of the lifecycle of a realm.

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Nod. Although the server is still alive and kicking.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

There isn't anything that can be done. You will always feel like you're the one being farmed, but I recommend you to switch factions and you'll see that's not the case. I recommend you find a pvp guild and do premades to increase your chances of winning if that matters to you. Otherwise, alt+tab as soon as you see it's a losing BG and wait for the next one.

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Well there are plenty of things that can be done. For example cross faction BGs, giving a horde race eg trolls a EMFH variant, quadruple horde honor gained from pvp and give 3x marks for a loss along with some arena points to help speed up gearing (although at a cost of no faction change to ally). These are just suggestions though.

The last thing this realm needs is more gear.

The realm is alive and kicking, but if you queue bg over and over you'll always see the same people. What will happen the day they quit?

It's slowly turning into a PvE realm anyways.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

The last thing this realm needs is more gear.

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In a way you're correct, but removing gear is not exactly a good solution. Right now in terms of PvP the Alliance tends to outgear the Horde more than I have ever seen them do before.

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Originally Posted by Shred92

The realm is alive and kicking, but if you queue bg over and over you'll always see the same people. What will happen the day they quit?

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Well alive and kicking does not mean good times per se. And you pretty much stated the main issue - what happens when the geared horde players quit/faction change? We end up with what we have now, just a bit worse. For most horde PvP guilds have already rolled Alliance or disbanded.

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Originally Posted by Evangelion

It's slowly turning into a PvE realm anyways.

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Yes and that mentality must change. But it is hard to change a mentality by encouraging people to participate in BGs where the "joy" is to be graveyard farmed by fully BiS Alliance toons. No one in their right mind will agree to that and premades are no solution to it either, because even with premades the Horde side has a high tendancy to lose and once again due to the gear factor.

Allow me to disagree once again with your notion that the Alliance is more geared. Take a notebook and mark every time you win or lose. You will see it's pretty much balanced.

But on the other hand, as we all agree, fights themselves are not balanced. It's always one team farming the other, very rarely you get into a good bg.

Also, let's not forget about multiboxers, which have pretty much killed big BGs, WG and then world PvP, including city invasions. That's the low hanging fruit; it's an evident problem that is very easy to fix. If the staff refuses to do anything about multiboxers, they are not going to do anything else that is harder to implement. Multiboxers are also the product of the last stage of a realm: you got absolutely bored with PvP so you try something new.

I guess WoTLK was fun while it lasted, ;-)

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Originally Posted by Shred92

Allow me to disagree once again with your notion that the Alliance is more geared. Take a notebook and mark every time you win or lose. You will see it's pretty much balanced.

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Way ahead of you. I can give you the numbers but perhaps it should be done in private, because they are not pretty at all. But ofc these are just my numbers and also does not take into consideration the presence of multiboxers.
Alas Multiboxers is not the main problem imo, the main problem is the racials that people take into consideration for minmaxing or for pushing high ratings in arena. Hence more geared toons on the Alliance side.

I personally believe that letting hordes obtain 3x more honor and acquire arena points from winning BGs and buying the Wrathful Glad set without rating requirements could help balance the tables. Alas this has been a persistent problem on Icecrown and nothing has been done about it in the past.

Lol! just give them custom custom buffs Lol!

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

I personally believe that letting hordes obtain 3x more honor and acquire arena points from winning BGs and buying the Wrathful Glad set without rating requirements could help balance the tables. Alas this has been a persistent problem on Icecrown and nothing has been done about it in the past.

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It is not a gearing problem, both factions already have more than enough BiS geared toons. Main problem is that there are already so much people with BiS toons, thats simply why you are going to have a bad time with your 2k GS trying to gear up in BGs.

But this supject is always a lot of crycry and "back in the good old days" bull****. Reality is, BGs were never ballanced, even on retail it was mainly dominate or get dominated, ballanced fights were a realy rare thing.
How high are the chances that 15 vs 15 are nearly equal geared and skilled? Chances are very low and history shows that even for premade vs premade the skill gab is very big.
Every server, every addon had that one premade that was far ahead of every other one. I was part of the strongest premade from retail vanilla of my server and after winning 100% of all matches for weeks. The premade was so well known, that no one, not even other premades tried to fight us.

Dont act like the "unballaced" bg situation here is a icecrown only thing.

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Originally Posted by AluschI

Reality is, BGs were never ballanced, even on retail it was mainly dominate or get dominated, ballanced fights were a realy rare thing

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i second this. since 2009 on molten bgs were never even close to be balanced. but some pandaria kid comes and cries about "muh balance"