Boomkin DPS

Hello druids,
I've been meaning to pose this thread for something like 5 years now so here goes. How do you people maximise your dps on boomkin?
I have been utilising several ideas but as to their correctness I am unsure:
1) Using Potion of Wild Magic during Solar Eclipse instead of Speed during Lunar. (My Idea here is that spellpower is better than haste, and the devaluation of crit that stems from it being useless during Lunar Eclipse is not a factor. I prepot speed though, due to having lunar as my first eclipse to make best use of Engi gloves.)
2) I let dots drop during trinket procs (PotNL and CTS both HC) even if it means losing my Idol stacks. (Figuring that losing my 5% crit for several seconds is better than losing a gcd while under a near 1k SP boost)

Now here is where it gets funky. http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=393256 from this thread (User NainVert's post) I saw a very interesting idea. Only refreshing MF after a wrath cast that procs Nature's Grace. However even if the assertion in this post is correct (which is that you've 6s of your MF left at the end of a Lunar Eclipse) this would require some good RNG to instantly proc your Solar eclipse and would only leave you with 5s of Vicious(Idol Stacks) left once you leave the eclipse. Not getting a crit in 5 Wraths is not that uncommon(It isnt seen often but it exists) combine that with not getting a Starfire crit right off the bat and you are putting your stacks in jeopardy. (Is that correct or is it simply suboptimal gameplay that would risc the idol?)

If however you disregard this idea and simply MF when running out of solar or to maintain your stacks you will find yourself at a point where your mf has faded and lunar has just faded as well, would you use IS then? When would it be worthy? I simply cast it due to not wanting to risk my idol stacks but some more informed opinions would be great.

A second idea was swapping out Glyph of Moonfire for Glyph of Focus, most fights do not penalise you for being in focused Starfall range, and while many can argue that numbers on Marrow or DBS dont matter its still a nice point to discuss IMO.

Another one - Idol swapping the Resto Idol with rejuv as a form of prepot, then swapping to Lunar Eclipse Idol, then back to Resto for the last tick of rejuv and then its business as usual. Is that as clear a dps gain as it seems?

And as far as talents are concerned - Owlkin Frenzy seems to proc rather often on fights such as Marrow and LoD infest used to proc it around 10 months ago when I was still a LoD raider, to obtain all 3 points I would sacrifice Gale Winds and 1 point from Imp. Insect Swarm which is not that great a talent tbh. I had qualms about Gale Winds but then again I usually heal VDW so. Do you believe this a worthy point? I have no issue sacrificing the pushback resistence on wrath you would usually get with these points, due to OF making you pushback immune.

Oh and it seems foolish to ask but do you folks believe starfire outperforms even Eclipsed Wrath during BL? I usualy do not wish to break my cycle but if there is an offchance might as well ask.
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I hope this thread generates some discussion and anyone who feels like pulling out the math will be most apreciated, as I dont believe myself good enough a theorycrafter to consider this.
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Please do not tell me to keep 100% uptime on IS to give 3% avoidance to the tank, I am aware that the Owl is considered a support class and I should go mage if all I care about is dps, im just curious about every bit of minmax people feel like sharing.
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P.S: Many of those ideas are not mine, simply ones I've gathered over the ages, I claim no originality of any sort with this post.

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Using Potion of Wild Magic during Solar Eclipse instead of Speed during Lunar. (My Idea here is that spellpower is better than haste, and the devaluation of crit that stems from it being useless during Lunar Eclipse is not a factor. I prepot speed though, due to having lunar as my first eclipse to make best use of Engi gloves.)

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If and only if that specific Solar lines up with a trinket proc (or two) and that you are using a Starfall early during this Wild Magic pot then I would consider it.

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2) I let dots drop during trinket procs (PotNL and CTS both HC) even if it means losing my Idol stacks. (Figuring that losing my 5% crit for several seconds is better than losing a gcd while under a near 1k SP boost)

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Unless you are required to use it, you never want to use Insect Swarm unless you use that GCD to move to a better spot. You always want to use MF if it's going to be extended to its full 21s duration because it will be a better damage per excecution time that a Starfire, even during an eclipse. To further go on with info about the idol, most simcraft runs (where MF is refreshed as soon as a wrath procs a NG when you are fishing for Lunar) yields a full uptime of you idol. Occasionnally, it may fall one or two times, but it's going to get rebuild to 5 stacks during your Lunar Eclipse.

Hope you enjoy all these info. Have fun figuring out the fancy part about spell queue.

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A second idea was swapping out Glyph of Moonfire for Glyph of Focus

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If you can use the 20 stars (requires at least 2 targets) then your Starfall damage can go around 100k per use. Glyph of focus will yield 10k damage per 60s of fight. This is a 166 DPS increase for strong positioncal requirements, and stronlgy jeopardizing idol uptime. Glyph of MF, by extending MF by 2x ticks will yield two ticks per eclipse rotation (in my case, and eclipse rotation is averaging 36s), yielding around 8.8k damage per 112s. Close call, and it also provides near-perfect idol uptime, lower the range requirements, so I'd go Glyph of Moonfire anyday, over Focus. And when you don't have multiple target, Focus is a net DPS loss. And while I mentionned range, boomie have a magic range, where flight time of wrath is so that Lunar proc is as late as it can be in the next GCD, yielding shorter eclipse rotation (by up to 1 second). I don't know the exact range but you can get a feel at it by testing on target dummy and see when is your Lunar proc happening. If it's the begging of a GCD, you're too close or too far. If it's the middle of a GCD then take 3 steps back. It's then going to happen late in a GCD, allowing you near-instant swap to Starfire spam.

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Another one - Idol swapping the Resto Idol with rejuv as a form of prepot, then swapping to Lunar Eclipse Idol, then back to Resto for the last tick of rejuv and then its business as usual. Is that as clear a dps gain as it seems?

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Idol swapping does not work. You will loose the stacks of the unequiped idol as soon as the newly equiped idol will yield a stack. Moreover, idol swaping in combat will trigger a 1.5s GCD or extend your current GCD to1.5s. Clear DPS loss.

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Owlkin Frenzy

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Maybe be taken at 2/3 over Improved Insect Swarm. Gale Winds is mandatory for LoD, at least on Lordearon. Do not ever sacrifice it. Moreover, its uptime at 2/3 on LoD is very low, good RNG lets you have 2 procs / fight, but in most figths you will not witness a single proc.

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it seems foolish to ask but do you folks believe starfire outperforms even Eclipsed Wrath during BL

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I do not believe. I know. During Bloodlust or Power Infusion, the damage per excecute time of an uneclipsed Starfire is greater than the damage per excecute time of an Eclipsed Wrath. However, Moonfire still beats either.

Now here comes the fancy stuff. Spell queue. I'm not going to go into the details but I start to believe the inpact it has on boomie rotation may be way bigger than I initially thought. If your Wrath is 0.8s cast time during NG, then I believe Solar Eclipse rotation should be

• Starfire > Wrath > Wrath > Wrath > Starfire > Wrath > Wrath > Wrath > Starfire > Wrath > Wrath > Wrath > Starfire > Wrath > Wrath x-many into Lunar

During a Solar eclipse in Bloodlust, you rotation should become

• Starfire > Starfire > Starfire > Wrath > Starfire > Starfire > Starfire > Wrath > ....

or

• Starfire > Starfire > Wrath > Starfire > Starfire > Wrath > ....

depending on you Starfire cast time. Making sure that MF is up during a Lunar eclipse becames also of much higher importance, and using Starfire > Starfall is the way to go, at the exception of when you are fishing for a Lunar Eclipse.

Hope you'll enjoy all the info here. Have fun spell-queueing!

Many thanks for this excelent and lengthy reply, you have given me plenty of food for thought, and also the realisation that simc existed for 3.3.5 as well. I do hope to convert this into being as effective as possible ^^

- I'd imagine your choice of potion would depend on Starfall.

By default, the Lunar Eclipse state tends to pump out a bit more DPS than Solar Eclipse, but the inclusion of Starfall into Solar Eclipse would completely turn that around. If you foresee that you're going to use Starfall during a Solar Eclipse in the near future, I suppose it'd be better to save Wild Magic for that. Otherwise, Potion of Speed during Lunar Eclipse isn't actually too bad. Not only is Starfire spam just plain stronger, but you get 500 stats as opposed to 400 total. Taking into account stat weights specifically only during Lunar Eclipses, the 500 Haste should have the edge.

- I don't understand why you wouldn't use DoTs during spellpower procs. Are you under the impression they don't benefit (or benefit less) from Spellpower?

- The Bloodlust issue depends on your spellpower/crit values. I recall doing the calculations for my own Boomy and arrived at the conclusion that an uneclipsed Starfire would need to reach a cast-time of 1.30 seconds or less for its DPCT to overtake that of an Eclipsed Wrath. This cast-time requirement is met under Bloodlust. It even reaches 1.3 or less in some scenarios without Bloodlust, for instance under Potion of Speed + Power Infusion. Spamming uneclipsed Starfires does mean that Nature's Grace uptime won't be perfect so that's another consideration to bear in mind.

- On Insect Swarm:

1) FIrst of all, know that whatever DPS you think you're gaining by avoiding Insect Swarm usage except when moving is anywhere from extremely marginal, to negative. Zooming out to the broader picture and considering this matter in terms of raid DPS, the difference is something that won't even register. You will absolutely never experience an occasion where your raid only just wiped such that the difference from Insect Swarm would have made a difference. The odds of that are unfathomably astronomical (read: negligible).

To think otherwise implies you have a very exaggerated impression of the DPS gain from withholding Insect Swarm usage. Which is probably the case, seeing as you're even willing to contend with the possibility of the idol buff falling off to maintain that playstyle.

2) What should seal the deal over Insect Swarm-usage should be the fact that it provides a decent buff to your tank's survivability. A Balance Druid is the only class that can be counted on to reliably provide a 3% hit debuff on the boss. This isn't necessarily gamebreaking on most attempts, but it's absolutely conceivable that the 3% un-DR'd flat avoidance buff will occasionally save your tank in situations where he'd have otherwise died. There's much more reason to err on the side of using it than not to. Especially if you're the only Moonkin in your raid, which Balance Druids often are.

- On spell-queuing:

I'm completely bewildered over the casting strategy proposed in light of recent fixes, and would appreciate if you could expand on what you believe that achieves so I could see where you're coming from.

I see many Boomkings going for DFO and they also gem 12sp+10haste. When i ask them why they do this, they say that you can ignore wrath totally and spam Starfire only. Because uneclipsed Starfire is always more dmg than Eclipsed Solar. But you need good gear and tons of haste to go that rotation. They only do Wrath just to proc Lunar Eclipse. Otherwise it's just Starfire spam.

Is this true? Is it worth it?

For me crit > haste because:

crit buffs wrath (in eclipse)
crit buffs wrath (out of eclipse)
crit buffs starfire (out of eclipse)
Eclipse totally depends on crit chance in order to proc
T10 p2 depends on crit
T10 p4 depends on crit
Clearcasting depends on crit
Natures Grace depends on crit

Haste buffs Starfire (in eclipse)
Haste buffs Starfire (out of eclpse)
Haste buffs Moonfire (faster dots)
Haste buffs Insect Swarm (faster dots)
Haste buffs Hurricane (faster channeling)

When i compare the above it seems like CRIT is the big winner by far. So why people here say that Starfire is the winner (meaning that haste is)?

Can someone elaborate?

PS: I am using engi hands, so I have 340 haste every other Lunar eclipse.
I use Wild Magic pre-pot (so that i enter lunar faster since i have high crit), and also to buff my starfall on pull (since haste doesnt buff starfire, but wild magic does).
I always use insect swarm after lunar ends and i always use moonfire after solar ends. Some people make fun of it saying that i have dps loss by using IS. It buffs my solar eclipse, since i spam wrath, so why is it considered a dps loss?

I did the math at some point, like DarkenedHue. For Starfire to beat Eclipsed Wrath, you needs at least Power Infusion, at endgame gear. Going DFO CTS doesn't allow you to be at that points where Starfire will beat Wrath, so you shouldn't spam Starfire, or you'll loose DPS.

In terms of stat weight on a boomie,

• Spellpower: 1.0000
• Hit: 1.5136
• Crit: 0.4933
• Haste: 0.5552

Now that's without spell queue. Haste gains A LOT of value from it. But you can see that even without that taken into account, haste is the winner.

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Clearcasting depends on crit, T10 p4 depends on crit

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Yes and no. It follows a PPM mechanics, and therefore depends on how fast you cast, so yes it depends on crit but only through Nature's Grace, but Nature's Grace uptime is extremely high even at 50% spell crit fully buffed.

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Natures Grace depends on crit

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Past 50% crit chance raid buffed, you have near-perfect uptime. Haste increases its uptime also, by allowing you to cast faster and therefore giving you more chances to proc/refresh it.

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Eclipse totally depends on crit chance in order to proc

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Yes but your Lunar Eclipse has a built-in 60% proc chance, and that hurts a lot the effect of crit on its proc rate for lunar.

On top of that, the higher crit is, the more it suffer from its own diminishing return. At 50% spell crit, crit only has half of the value it had when you were at 0% spell crit. The same goes for haste, but raid buffs and talents and idol give you around 27% spell crit, giving crit a hard time to shine. Haste suffers the same, but is only diminished from haste rating itself (shamans 5% spell haste, as well as talents, bommie/ret aura don't have diminishing returns on haste rating).

About Insect Swarm, if you are purely after DPS gain then using it not recomended, simply because it either increases your cycle (lunar > solar) by 1 GCD and the 2% damage on wrath doesn't compensate, or you have to replace an eclipsed wrath by an insect swarm, and again that ain't making it. but we are talking 50-150dps difference anway. Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed pots all the wayyyyyy unless you are going to starfall on a Solar. Speeeeeed pot the pull also. Though it's prolly a very minor dps gain.

So what does that mean? That i should just gem 12sp+10haste instead of +10crit?

I dont understand what you said: "haste is the winner." but also u said "you shouldn't spam Starfire, or you'll loose DPS.".

what's the outcome? do i spam starfire all the time, or i stick to normal rotation?

12sp+10haste is more DPS, 12sp+10crit is less variability.

Normal rotation. Starfire spam, if not under BL or PI is a DPS loss over normal rotation.

@DarkenedHue: Check your inbox.

Ok so this is the rotation:

While on Solar:
spam wrath until u get lunar -> when you see lunar proc, do Moonfire, then spam starfire

While on Lunar:
spam starfire, never refresh dots -> lunar ends, u keep spamming starfire, solar procs -> moonfire -> wrath spam (solar)

While BL is up:
spam starfire like crazy no matter the eclipse, renew moonfire (?), throw 1-2 wraths when solar ended to proc lunar since u spam starfires

While u pull:
Treants -> pre-Wrath -> Starfall -> pre-pot haste -> FF -> Moonfire -> Starfire (if ur 1st wrath didnt proc lunar, keep wrathing).

Are the above considered correct? Any changes you might add?

PS: im playing on Lordaeron so no +30% buff, if that makes any difference.

While on Solar:

• Spam Wrath until Solar ends, then keep spamming Wrath but if you see a NG proc and if MF is not up then refresh it. Else keep spamming. Try to be at around 25yards range from the boss (so that Eclipse proc happens at 70% of you Wrath cast, so you can instant swap to Starfire)
• Or: fancyspellqueuemessaround

This is because, if you see a NG proc from a Wrath, there's 60% chance that you'll get a Lunar, cause a NG proc means that that Wrath *will* crit when it will hit the boss.

While on Lunar:

• If MF fades, refresh it. Spam Starfire untill you get a solar.
• Or: same, but do fancyspellqueuestufftogaindps

While bloodlust:

• Spam Starfire, use your second speed pot if you can, maintain MF, but try to not have to refresh it during your Lunar (or do fancyspellqueuestufftorefresh*itandgaindps)

While pre pulling:

• Treants > Typhoon (optional, not towards the boss, and only if DFO, don't use if you have CTS) > GoTW (4Set T10 proc) > Haste Pot > Pre-wrath > Spam wrath
• On the 1st NG proc, do: FF if no Feral or no SP, else do MF if it's not up.

For you first starfall, wait for trinket procs

• PNL & CTS up > Insta use
• PNL & DFO up > Wait for as long as you can but use while PNL > 10s and DFO > 10s
• PNL only: wait for PNL < 12s then use. That leaves more chances for CTS to proc during that time.
• CTS only: wait for CTS < 12s then use. That leaves more chances for PNL to proc during that time.
• DFO only: Wait for DFO < 12s then use. Same story

I prefer to wait for trinket procs because 1k spellpower gain from PNL is an extra 12700 dmg on my Starfall (if 1 target) and more than 34000 dmg if there are 2 or more targets. If you know that waiting will cause you to loose a Starfall at the very end of the fight, then do not delay. Tip: on LK HC phase 1, you can and should delay for your own ego (witness yourself be the highest raid burst for the first 30s). Tip: on BPC, do not delay else you may hit the first Dark Nucleus, but be wary of Taldarm. Tip: On BQL, do delay, so you don't get the bite. Tip: On DBS, don't delay too much to be able to hit the 2nd wave of beasts.

I'm a Lordearon player. But 30% doesn't change nothing to that anyway.

That's the way I play my boomer, or at least that's the way I try to play it.

"...cause a NG proc means that that Wrath *will* crit when it will hit the boss." this is really really helpful. i didnt know that there was an indicator for Wrath that is going to crit when hit.

1) How much crit you think i should have in order to start gemming 12sp+10haste? Right now my gems are 12sp+10crit. When i reach 60% crit with raid buffs i can go gemming haste? Is 60% a good chance?

2) Is it optimal to spam rejuv with resto idol? I think if i start boss with Starfall, it's nice to have that extra SP. I know that the stacks are lost only if i use Moonfire. The real question is: does starfall keep the spell power when i cast it? I mean, if i lose the rejuv stacks after i used starfall, will every hit benefit from the original spellpower or it refreshes? For example shadow priest's pwPain benefits througout the whole fight with the stats of the original time it was used. So it's good to pre-pot wild magic. This way, if your pwPain never drops, it keeps the crit buff from wild magic throughout the whole fight. Since you said "spam wrath on pull and do MF only on the 1st NG proc" isn't it benefitial to do rejuv pre-pull since i wont be using MF to lose the rejuv stacks until i get NG proc.

3) I do not own DFO or PNL or CTS. My trinkets are Muradin hc and exiled from vendor 200ilevel.

4) I currently have Plaguebringer's Stained Pants. Should i go for T10 legs and have all set 5?

Here is my boomie incase you have time to look and inspect any suggestions :
http://armory.warmane.com/character/...daeron/profile

Thanks for your tips! I am learning alot of things.

1/ Crit cap is 103% (or 104.8% I can never remember) because of crit suppression. You may decide to go either crit or haste untill the point where you have 103% to crit with Starfire, fully buffed under lunar eclipose, taking into account the 5% debuff on bosses, the 4%+3% from your talents and the possible 1-2-3% from IIS. Past that point, haste is the clear winner.

2/ Highly unlileky of it being worth anything. You should / will be using MF before starfall when you get closer to your endgame trinkets. Starfall doesn't snapshot anything, the only things that snapshot whatsoever are debuffs that you place on an enemy.

3/ Muradins nice. Get your hands on CTS/DFO/PNL if you get a chance

4/ These pants are BiS. 5P boomie is viable too.

You may be over the hitcap, so you may want only 1/2 in Balance of Power. You want to not take Nature's Focus and rather go 5/5 Furor. (2% intellect is 0.2-0.3% crit and 1-3 sp)

1) But why only on Lunar eclipse? I mean, i need alot of crit so i can have more chances to go into Solar when Lunar ends and i keep spamming starfire wishing i had more crit to proc solar. I was asking if there is a "sweet spot" where you are not low on crit and also not really high. So you can afford some haste gems perhaps if your gear has alot of crit.

2) Ok, got it.

3) Trying to.. but i think i will pass on DFO if it drops. Other classes benefit more so..

4) Yes, T10 gives crit while PStained Pants give haste. I want to get T10 but maybe the crit stacking is too much?

Thank you alot for your info.

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Originally Posted by dominokid

1) But why only on Lunar eclipse? I mean, i need alot of crit so i can have more chances to go into Solar when Lunar ends and i keep spamming starfire wishing i had more crit to proc solar. I was asking if there is a "sweet spot" where you are not low on crit and also not really high. So you can afford some haste gems perhaps if your gear has alot of crit.

2) Ok, got it.

3) Trying to.. but i think i will pass on DFO if it drops. Other classes benefit more so..

4) Yes, T10 gives crit while PStained Pants give haste. I want to get T10 but maybe the crit stacking is too much?

Thank you alot for your info.

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Screw other classes, if its an upgrade you can roll for it. If you are in a guild there are rules that govern that so stick to those.

I never had problems with rolling cloth as boomie. I even roll for fester legs as holy pala since it's bis. My only concern with boomie is: t10 gives crit and fester legs gives haste. which one should i go for?

Currently i have 45% crit without raid buffs. How much crit should i aim for before start gemming haste?