RBG - it's time for Warmane to come clean.

For 3 weeks, Alliance, after years of knowing tactics and playing RBG's well, is suddenly *****ic and playing battle royale style. If it's not that, it's everyone commenting in chat to let Horde win after the first tough melee, and turtling for entire battlegrounds. Everyone is commenting on it in battlegrounds - they aren't even fun to play. it's so ridiculous. Add to that, it appears you have nerfed Horde somehow so they're suddenly downing full wrath people in 1-3 shots. I've done PvP for 10 years, never had rogues be able to take me out and suddenly, they're on steroids.

Seriously - whatever you did, you need to switch it back and try again. It's so stupid it's ridiculous and not even worth playing. Maybe it was an attempt to better balance BG's but it's seriously a joke. I don't mind a good, fair fight, but this is beyond silly.

And by the way, we need the ability to vote to kick in PVP, as they do in raids. I'm sure I'm not the only one tired of lazy players wanting to be carried and not wanting to put in the work to win. Makes it all the more disagreeable to play when 1/3 to 1/2 of your team won't even respawn or will sit at a graveyard and do nothing. Those people need to be kicked, and the AFK reporting usually doesn't work until the BG is already pretty much lost.

I agree. I've been playing my horde char on Lordaeron lately, and quite honestly the BGs are trash. I honestly don't understand how after years of the game being out, 90% of every RBG group on Horde has no understanding of how different BGs work. On top of that, Alliance characters that are geared even lower than my Horde char, are 3-4 shotting me, and rogues with same gs are sometimes 1-2 shotting. It's like they added some sort of damage modifier and then a massive influx of fresh WoW players who have no idea how the PvP works started playing all at once. I'm about to go back to playing my Alliance characters on Icecrown to see if it is as bad on Alliance side as you are saying Ceera. That's pretty disheartening to hear, since my only solace has been "well, I can always go back to my Icecrown chars and win at least SOME bgs there".

Some of what you're experiencing could be scripters (cheaters). There are scripters on both sides. Being Horde, I typically only notice the Alli ones, but both sides do it. I try to screenshot it when I see someone doing something their toon should NOT be able to do and then open a ticket, but i can't always prove what they did was a hack. A few days ago I actually filmed a guy who had a wall around him, where no one could attack him. He was in AB, and for about 60 seconds almost our whole team attempted to attack him, but as long as he didn't leave his location, he was un-attackable. I've seen and documented quite a few incidents of things that should not be. Rogues whose ambush hits for 25k on my priest with 1520 resil and a PW Shield up. DKs who trinket three times in one minute, paladins walking through walls, etc. Some of them don't even attempt to hide it. They just cheat their asses off and laugh at everyone.

But yea, getting back to your main point - there are a LOT of players out there who either do not understand the objectives, or simply choose to ignore the objectives in lieu of farming HKs or fighting in the middle of the road while the other team quietly caps three nodes. I see this on both sides though. Some BGs, it looks like Horde all lost their damned minds. Next BG, it looks like the allies have no clue what they need to do. It's not that hard. The objectives have never changed. Seems like 80% of BGs are non-competitive, with one side completely outclassing the other, camping the opponent's GY for most of the BG until ppl simply stop rezzing. It's the close ones I enjoy. It's no fun to be GY farmed, and honestly, it's not that much fun being on the winning side of a blowout either, except you get more honor. It's clearly broken.

Are you talking about icecrown?
Im walking with 150 resi cloth on bg and never seen ambush for 25k, never seen anything above18k from any class/spec.

About lazy players, yes that's true, but i don't blame them, when we meet premade team with wall build from 5x shadowmourne, 35k+ hp & pocket healers it obvious who will win.

Objectives, well most of players try to have fun, not everyone have to win to get fun, sometimes people like to turtle at base, sometimes they wanna just farm kills, sometimes just test some new build etc. If you get fun only by winning game then you should try a premade or go arena with friendo.

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Originally Posted by Fiutolog

Are you talking about icecrown?
Im walking with 150 resi cloth on bg and never seen ambush for 25k, never seen anything above18k from any class/spec.

About lazy players, yes that's true, but i don't blame them, when we meet premade team with wall build from 5x shadowmourne, 35k+ hp & pocket healers it obvious who will win.

Objectives, well most of players try to have fun, not everyone have to win to get fun, sometimes people like to turtle at base, sometimes they wanna just farm kills, sometimes just test some new build etc. If you get fun only by winning game then you should try a premade or go arena with friendo.

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Not to take anything away from the point but u can easily get above 18k with a few classes. Back before the brackets i routinely got 20k bites on my feral vs low resi cloth (to compare, vie seen 16k in arenas vs 1.2k resi mages), rogues with all buffs in a 0 resi build will crit well above 20k on no resi cloth, if rets get lucky they can chain hits together so that in one second you get hit for 20k+ (10k judgement, 8k melee hit, dot tick, smourne proc etc etc).

Iirc u can get 40k killshots with everything up.


And @Op you just met a good premade on horde, its not hard to 1-3shot a full geared player in a group. Maybe you just got lucky before. Ive seen horrible alliance bgs, good horde bgs and vice versa. I did 2 bgs today, totally dominated the horde both games, no contest.

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Originally Posted by Meowto

Not to take anything away from the point but u can easily get above 18k with a few classes. Back before the brackets i routinely got 20k bites on my feral vs low resi cloth (to compare, vie seen 16k in arenas vs 1.2k resi mages), rogues with all buffs in a 0 resi build will crit well above 20k on no resi cloth, if rets get lucky they can chain hits together so that in one second you get hit for 20k+ (10k judgement, 8k melee hit, dot tick, smourne proc etc etc).

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Exactly my point. On low resil on my BiS rogue, my ambush usually hits around the numbers you describe. Which is how i KNOW you'd have to script to hit 25k on 1520 resil and 9000 armor. It's wildly inconsistent with the numbers I see from regular non-scripted toons.

Make a premade, or accept loss's.

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Originally Posted by Meowto

Not to take anything away from the point but u can easily get above 18k with a few classes. Back before the brackets i routinely got 20k bites on my feral vs low resi cloth (to compare, vie seen 16k in arenas vs 1.2k resi mages), rogues with all buffs in a 0 resi build will crit well above 20k on no resi cloth, if rets get lucky they can chain hits together so that in one second you get hit for 20k+ (10k judgement, 8k melee hit, dot tick, smourne proc etc etc).

Iirc u can get 40k killshots with everything up.


And @Op you just met a good premade on horde, its not hard to 1-3shot a full geared player in a group. Maybe you just got lucky before. Ive seen horrible alliance bgs, good horde bgs and vice versa. I did 2 bgs today, totally dominated the horde both games, no contest.

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Nice, 20k bites?! :D
Good that i don't meet such guys in bg, I would cry.
If you mean combined hits in one GCD then yes, 20-25k is often, but only on my 150 resi mage. Never happen to my other toons with 1000+ resi

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Originally Posted by Fiutolog

Nice, 20k bites?! :D
Good that i don't meet such guys in bg, I would cry.
If you mean combined hits in one GCD then yes, 20-25k is often, but only on my 150 resi mage. Never happen to my other toons with 1000+ resi

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Exactly! It's one thing to see some big numbers on pve geared squabs. It's quite another to do it against BiS and 1500+ resil.

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Originally Posted by Thydus

Make a premade, or accept loss's.

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Our premade win loss is about 70%. You don't win everything just because you have a PM. ESPECIALLY if you're Horde, because the humans (allies) have an advantage. unless youre' full 10/10 in WSG or full 15/15 in the others, any good alli guild will wax you...because of the racial.

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Originally Posted by AncientRiver

Exactly! It's one thing to see some big numbers on pve geared squabs. It's quite another to do it against BiS and 1500+ resil.

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You're right, I enjoy my full PvE BiS hunter in Alterac valley the most, if you play carefully and don't expose you, you will kill the guy you focus in less then 6 secs with a Serp sting- chimera shot - aimed shot - arcane shot - Kill shot. I know some of the alliance players and I focus them sometimes, I know they are BiS geared and I still do 10k crits with chimera shot when the trinks / cooldowns procc, I haven't noticed any change on my damage as "Hunter" but I guess people realised that BG battles end so fast it's nothing like a 1v1 when your both prepared, so a lot of people go with a lot of PvE pieces to boost their damage, and if you get into a 5v5 in Arathi basin you pop your offensive / defencive spells and try to nuke them quick, it rarely last longer then 20 seconds until the last guy goes running.
Some BG's i se more glass cannons then anything else.

On my Unholy DK I tried to go full PvP (2 piece from bis) every single piece, and I started having a really hard time killing people due to the low damage output you get with only pvp gear on. I swapped more then half of it for BiS PvE pieces and I suddenly I took down several wrathfull Holy Paladins in 1 burst.

PVE gear is superior even in PVP. AS LONG AS YOU CAN SURVIVE IT, thats the thing, you have to be able to survive too.
The biggest secret to pvp is practise, know your class inside out against every other class ability, if you can counter the things your enemy is going to throw as you, then you don't need the extra surviveability all that PvP gear gives. It takes a really long time to become truly good at pvp on WoW.

I'm one of those glass cannons. It's fun playing full PVE sub rogue and arcane or fire mage in BGs. 18k damage isn't the biggest damage I've seen. Tbh any ranged class works fine in full PVE as long you can keep your distance and know when to back off in advance.

However, properly geared wrathful people with a healthy amount of resilience (Not just 4pc Wrathful and everything else PVE, you'll still take significant damage at around 800ish resilience) really do not die in 3 hits from 1 rogue, especially with buffs on, unless its a coordinated kill from the team.

Its true many groups give up easily after the first clash, however, there are times in BGs when people leave and the newcomers come in to turn things around and make a win. Try to be productive, you can still get some kills from those who wander away from the main zerg for example, or just protect the flagroom in WSG. Still a loss, but you get some HKs and move on with something.

The solution at the end of the day is still forming premades.

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Originally Posted by Disktrasa

You're right, I enjoy my full PvE BiS hunter in Alterac valley the most, if you play carefully and don't expose you, you will kill the guy you focus in less then 6 secs with a Serp sting- chimera shot - aimed shot - arcane shot - Kill shot. I know some of the alliance players and I focus them sometimes, I know they are BiS geared and I still do 10k crits with chimera shot when the trinks / cooldowns procc, I haven't noticed any change on my damage as "Hunter" but I guess people realised that BG battles end so fast it's nothing like a 1v1 when your both prepared, so a lot of people go with a lot of PvE pieces to boost their damage, and if you get into a 5v5 in Arathi basin you pop your offensive / defencive spells and try to nuke them quick, it rarely last longer then 20 seconds until the last guy goes running.
Some BG's i se more glass cannons then anything else.

On my Unholy DK I tried to go full PvP (2 piece from bis) every single piece, and I started having a really hard time killing people due to the low damage output you get with only pvp gear on. I swapped more then half of it for BiS PvE pieces and I suddenly I took down several wrathfull Holy Paladins in 1 burst.

PVE gear is superior even in PVP. AS LONG AS YOU CAN SURVIVE IT, thats the thing, you have to be able to survive too.
The biggest secret to pvp is practise, know your class inside out against every other class ability, if you can counter the things your enemy is going to throw as you, then you don't need the extra surviveability all that PvP gear gives. It takes a really long time to become truly good at pvp on WoW.

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That's all well and good for some classes. I've seen full PVE ret pallies, boomkins, and arcane mages do well. But try to play disc priest at less than 1200 resil, and you WILL be one-shotted or two-shotted by double trink human rogues and pallies. I run over 1500, and what I've found is that my survival rate goes way up with resil. I don't heal when I'm dead, and (rightly so) everyone on the other team is trying to make me dead. I HAVE to run really high resil. It buys me time to utilize my CDs so I can stay alive and continue to heal. Also, if you watch closely, those that are running full PVE gear usually have someone covering them in case they get focused. I know one particular healer on alli side that ALWAYS has a companion rogue that peels for her. Not all of this have that luxury.

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Originally Posted by Disktrasa

PVE gear is superior even in PVP. AS LONG AS YOU CAN SURVIVE IT, thats the thing, you have to be able to survive too.
The biggest secret to pvp is practise, know your class inside out against every other class ability, if you can counter the things your enemy is going to throw as you, then you don't need the extra surviveability all that PvP gear gives. It takes a really long time to become truly good at pvp on WoW.

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That the matter, the balance between pve/pvp gear is broken by far the damage you do with pve and "tank" is way more efficience than pvp gear.
A pvp gear should be able to crush pve gear in pvp, but it's not the case.

For me the problem is: arp, it's way too strong. (It's like arp ignor resi) Look at the most usefull class use in bg/arena. Almost arp users, the other get rekt execpt paladin.