Tank/Heal problem

If you really want to know the truth behind why healers/tanks are such a pain to find in random dungeon, random heroic, etc

It's as simple as this:
1). Nobody wants to queue for a tank or healing specific role where they will get banned for rolling for a dps item.
2).The rules for the servers are extremely strict on "ninja looting" where a tank and a healer can't roll for anything dps related, so if you aren't in need of your daily frost emblems reward, or daily rdf reward there's no reason to queue as a tank/healer.
3). Both tanking and healing are not as fun to play as DPS, let alone the fact that only 4 classes can heal (1 being a druid that has to pick between tank or heal), and 4 classes can tank (again refers to druid having a choice between tank/heal/dps). I have played all roles in all dungeons, with tons of experience on my hands in both terms of raiding, dungeons, etc
4). Rdf would be more approachable and enjoyable if ninja-looting were only a case-by-case banable offense in which the player who took the item DOES NOT ACTUALLY NEED THE ITEM. If the player needs the item for his off-spec then he should be able to need for the item, or else when he's using the spec to make rdf go faster, he will get banned for it.
5). If you need an item in a certain dungeon and you won't get banned for going tank/healer when you can fill that spot and still need on the item you need for dps, you will go Tank/Healer and roll for that dps item.

TL:DR: Simple as that, ninja-looting rules for rdf need to be changed to improve rdf queue time, or else we simply continue suffering with very long queue times as we have for the longest time.

It's more than likely this post will be brushed under the rug and nobody will support it, but always worth a try.

Stop right there.
from the ninja policy I read, after a bunch of stuff related to changing loot system mid-run,
" - Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use."
The way I understand it, is that a warrior needing on that spellpower cloak gets shot on sight. The feral tank tanking on his offspec rolling on the same back for his MAIN balance gear, not so much. Else, why would a dps ever care about tanking dungeons besides the two EoFs?

The lack of tanks/heals, at least how I've seen it happening on a number of servers, is imo related to the fact that - even if I play a tank only toon - once I'm done with EoT rewards, I have no interest in running heroics besides the first one of the day. Obviously, if - ab absurdo - 100% of the tanks in the server are done with their EoFs by midday server time, there will be no tanks in queue, unless someone gets really bored.

The problem I feel is in the lack of interesting rewards in running dungeons past the bare minimum requirements.

how cute... low number of tank queuing for rdf because they want dps gears and they are afraid of ninja offense... The low number of tanks in rdf is mainly because majority of people just want to brainlessly hit their keyboard. I did lots of rdf and I can tell you that those guy can ASK in the group for the gears they want and most of the time, people don't give a damn about it. Even if a tank want dps gears, he can mentioned beforehand and most of the time people won't say NO because the tank will left and they have to spend another half an hour for another tank if they are unlucky. Most importantly, tank players WON'T complain about the rdf queue. I laugh every time I saw this "RDF took way too long" thread because I know those guys play mainly dps and won't do anything other than that. At the end, they won't even contribute in shortening the rdf queue time other than qq in forum.

I'm curious... you said on a different thread that you're banned... any chance the ban is related and you're blowing what got you banned as "why no one tanks or heals" because of your specific case?

@Obnoxious
lol ur obnoxious xD just kidding,

Absolutely not, my ban is "breaking the tos" which the GM's still haven't looked into my ban appeal, but I am completely innocent and I expect the ban to be uplifted because I'm very certain it's in regards to trying to brute force my way into my own account, due to the double factor authentication taking 12 attempts with the correct code copy + pasted from my email straight into the authenticator. It's more than likely based on something regarding account sharing or something. I had done nothing to break any of the tos's and I need it looked into but the GM's give 0 ****s about ban appeals so I have to wait a very long time unfortunately for something I didn't do but o-well what can I do lol

No, just getting the code wrong twelve times wouldn't get you banned, much less for "breaking the ToS." That's not an automated ban, but something done manually, with checked evidence.

low number of tanks/healers has been an issue since i started here 8 years ago, long before ninja looting was banable.

tanks/heals are low because as you say they're more stressful to play and they require far more attention than dps.

1 - no, it's because of braindead dps pulling **** at random, dying then complaining
2 - they are pretty strict, but i don't mind, I don't want someone taking a trinket for their 3rd spec and they're never even gonna use it.
3 - I find tanking really fun, you've gor 5 mobs hitting you, dodging and parrying them, having cooldowns to say "lol you can't kill me." It's one of the most fun roles when DPS aren't morons (see 1)
4 - isn't it case-by-case already? Your offspec is less important than someone's mainspec, I don't see an issue.
5 - I'd rather wait than have someone take an item I've been farming for weeks for his OS

**** suggestion, go back to doing spreadsheets for arp uh dk.

First of all, I don't know for heal, but tanking for me is more fun than DPS-ing. And tbh I didn't know that until I tried tanking. I was mainly DPS then my guild started farming 4 lods weekly and since everyone got bis geared I got my tank gear for like 5 DKP/item and now I am bis tank. Then I said, well, lets at least try to tank RDF. I run few RDF and I started liking it. Now I ended up with 4 tanks; 2 Bis DK, 1 Pala Tank and 1 Warrior tank. I found warrior tank so much fun and I love it so much, more then my DK tank. I am now going to gear it to bis.

To return to topic, I suggested 4 eofs for tank, 3 eofs for heal and 2 eofs for DPS in RDF HC for month or two, but I got rejected, because they say DPS will que as tank. (Like you can't prevent it by inspecting for example defense rating while queing or some other tank stats). It could result to increased number of tanks and heals for sure.

The problem isn't just there aren't *many* tanks in queue (replace liberally with heals, it doesn't matter). The problem is that the reward is once they get their EoFs, unless they're fresh 80s, they have no interest in running a second dungeon unless it's for a friend/guildie/SO.

Not to mention, what happens the moment your dungeon group gets a DK "tank" which is uncrittable by resilience but with zero avoidance, attrracted by the asy emblems, AND your healer is barely able to queue (and thus *really* needs the dungeon?)

Finally, unless someone plans to get on top of the primordial saronite racket, he's going to get frost badges just to get his T10 and maybe one or two pieces from the vendor. If I'm getting enough emblems for my spec(s), I'm surely not going to despair if I skip my RDF once. If I'm getting twice the emblems from my daily heroic, it means I'll be done with it in half the time.

Anecdote, when I log in (druid) I queue for RHC as tank+dps, once I'm out I drop tank from the queue as I do my dailies (since i cba to switch spec every time). The moment I'll start farming for emblems again (gems, heirlooms) I'll might start requeuing as a tank once again, until then I just log off. And I'm a person who actually enjoys tanking dungeons, it's just not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

I'm curious... you said on a different thread that you're banned... any chance the ban is related and you're blowing what got you banned as "why no one tanks or heals" because of your specific case?

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That's exactly what it's related to, Fishbro hasn't been noticed on forums since forever. Now that he's banned he can't spam Lord's global all day so we'll be seeing a lot of him for the next 2 months.

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Originally Posted by Paounn

The problem isn't just there aren't *many* tanks in queue (replace liberally with heals, it doesn't matter). The problem is that the reward is once they get their EoFs, unless they're fresh 80s, they have no interest in running a second dungeon unless it's for a friend/guildie/SO.

Not to mention, what happens the moment your dungeon group gets a DK "tank" which is uncrittable by resilience but with zero avoidance, attrracted by the asy emblems, AND your healer is barely able to queue (and thus *really* needs the dungeon?)

Finally, unless someone plans to get on top of the primordial saronite racket, he's going to get frost badges just to get his T10 and maybe one or two pieces from the vendor. If I'm getting enough emblems for my spec(s), I'm surely not going to despair if I skip my RDF once. If I'm getting twice the emblems from my daily heroic, it means I'll be done with it in half the time.

Anecdote, when I log in (druid) I queue for RHC as tank+dps, once I'm out I drop tank from the queue as I do my dailies (since i cba to switch spec every time). The moment I'll start farming for emblems again (gems, heirlooms) I'll might start requeuing as a tank once again, until then I just log off. And I'm a person who actually enjoys tanking dungeons, it's just not worth it.

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If you are getting twice emblems from RDF you will gear yout tank, then you will gear your dps and then maybe buy T10 pieces for heal. Also you can buy full Relentless PVP set from eofs and primordials too. In 5 days you are getting 1 primordial just by playing RDF as a tank and you can sell it for repairs/flasks, you don't need anything else to do. Not to mention emblems of tiriumphs you can convert for GEMS and Stone keeper shards you can convert for honors.

There should not be Dps or PVP que as tank because they can create script to inspect your defense rating for example if you have less then 500-510 you cant que as tank... Simpla as that. Or some other stat (Stamina?) or both.

Also if that is a case, DPS would que as tank even now because they are waiting 30mins in que. So it seems like they wont...

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Originally Posted by jacque

how cute... low number of tank queuing for rdf because they want dps gears and they are afraid of ninja offense... The low number of tanks in rdf is mainly because majority of people just want to brainlessly hit their keyboard. I did lots of rdf and I can tell you that those guy can ASK in the group for the gears they want and most of the time, people don't give a damn about it. Even if a tank want dps gears, he can mentioned beforehand and most of the time people won't say NO because the tank will left and they have to spend another half an hour for another tank if they are unlucky. Most importantly, tank players WON'T complain about the rdf queue. I laugh every time I saw this "RDF took way too long" thread because I know those guys play mainly dps and won't do anything other than that. At the end, they won't even contribute in shortening the rdf queue time other than qq in forum.

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Basically this. It baffles me the logic of some players, they complain that they've been in Q for 30 minutes and a healer is missing, when they play a class that can heal, or the same with a class that can tank. Think about it:

-How are you going to gear up faster?

A) Playing as DPS, waiting 30 minutes per dungeon and under the fear that it will be occulus, HoR or Culling, which very likely will end up in drama and will put you back at waiting 30 more minutes.

B)Roll as tank/heal for your own convenience, instant Q, max 3-5 minutes.

Assuming a dungeon takes 15 minutes the longest, you can make 2 dungeons as tank or heal instead of waiting 30 minutes to make 1 dungeon.

2-5Q time > 15m+15m (per dungeon run)= 32-35 minutes, 2 dungeons completed.
30Q time > 15m (per dungeon run)= 45 minutes, 1 dungeon completed.

This basically means that in 1:30h using the B method you would run up to 6 dungeons, 7 if you get a fast one; However, using the method A you would run 3 dungeons, 2 if you are unlucky to get one that ends up in a group disband.

Imagine if you thought about simple stuff, imagine how fast you would gear up, imagine how fast you would be farming frosties in ICC, imagine how good you'd be knowing not only your DPS role but also a heal/tank role, imagine how much tanks and heals would love a DPS with brain and experience, imagine how much guilds would want to keep you, just "Imagine"...

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Originally Posted by aryanprince

If you are getting twice emblems from RDF you will gear yout tank, then you will gear your dps and then maybe buy T10 pieces for heal. Also you can buy full Relentless PVP set from eofs and primordials too. In 5 days you are getting 1 primordial just by playing RDF as a tank and you can sell it for repairs/flasks, you don't need anything else to do. Not to mention emblems of tiriumphs you can convert for GEMS and Stone keeper shards you can convert for honors.

There should not be Dps or PVP que as tank because they can create script to inspect your defense rating for example if you have less then 500-510 you cant que as tank... Simpla as that. Or some other stat (Stamina?) or both.

Also if that is a case, DPS would que as tank even now because they are waiting 30mins in que. So it seems like they wont...

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You mean my PvP Prot Warrior that has no problems surviving any and all dungeons with 450-ish defense rating & stamina that is slightly higher than the average DPS can't queue? Sad... And there I thought I was rushing people through dungeons with near 100% survivability...