Are mages simply not suitable for general pvp?

I know mages do very well in arenas but i am referring to pvp as in duels, battlegrounds and wintergrasp as well alongside arenas.

for pvp there is only one viable spec which is frost, you can pvp as fire or arcane but you are giving up survivability for damage. Being able to move while dishing out damage sure is nice, but mana shield will not protect you against rogues. Frost is the only spec that are will give you a fighting chance in all pvp scenarios against all classes.

and yet the frost mage is flawed.

I have realise that frost mage's doctrine is to snare snare and snare , and then take your own sweet time to dish out damage. That works in arena against a small amount of enemies. But in bg or world pvp poly doesnt work because someone 's going to break it with their aoe damage. Frost nova doesnt stick because someone's gonna break it before your frostbolt cast is complete. Races and classes have talents that reduce stun duration, making deepfreeze over before you even finish casting frostbolt. BG and world pvp requires you to just dish out maximum damage to maximum targets in the shortest period of time. Frost mage doesnt have that in its doctrine.

As a mage you can only have 1 armor type at one time and yet the armor type will only protect you against certain damages. ice armor will protect you against melee while mage armor will protect you against casters. What if you are fighting against both at the same time? say you are assaulting a node in arathi basin and find out that a a rogue and a warlock is guarding the node? If they both decide to jump on you, you have to make a compromise, and possibly waste 1.5 second global CD if you have to change armour. Either choice will have profound impact on the fight. Without ice armour, rogues will just eat you alive. Without mage armour , warlocks will fear the living hell out of you. So choose your poison.

in pvp every second matters, one second standing is one second your enemy has to get close to you. Which is why most caster class have spells that allows them to deal damage while on the move. Which is also why afflec is the conventional spec to go for warlock for pvp, not destro. Afflec and shadow priest gets to deal damage over time with mostly instant cast spells. Which means they only need to apply the buff successfully, and the remaining time can be spend running away from the incoming enemy. with arcane mage you have arcane barrage, with firemage you have living bomb and fireblast. With frost mage you only have icelance, there is no core damage spells frost mage has which is instant cast, a luxury all other caster class get to enjoy.


Hunters are absolutely nightmare for mages. Hunter's damage are considered physical which is mitigated by armour, something cloth users dont have. You can snare them all you want it doesnt mean anything, they still shoot you nonetheless. So thats the equivalent of warrior being able to hit you without being in close to you. The pet is annoying enough and poly a hunter's pet will not afford you the usual 1 min poly time usually enjoyed on mobs. So 10 seconds later the pet is up your arse again begging for your attention. The only way mage can beat a hunter is to get close to him so he cant shoot. Now that is challenging enough. Remember your frostbolt has a 1.9 second cast time, so the moment you stay still and cast, he runs off again and create the space to shoot you. I can only do frost nova + deepfreeze + icelance against hunter but its not enough to kill a hunter. Its just not a fair fight to begin with.

Also, if you encounter a hunter in a bg, say for example alterac valley, chances are his whole ****ing team is behind him. You dont really wanna go up close into him because that will draw fire from 20 other players. So bascially theres nothing you can do , you just gotta retreat and fall behind your team. Unlike a warlock or shadow priestwho can trade damage when being shot at .

I am not even going to get started on fighting feral druids. They can get out of your snare in a single click with no downside. You encounter them , you just run.

Even the water elemental pet is not permanent , and requires judgement to summon it at the right time for maximum impact. At least warlocks get to keep their pet around all the time.

Frost mages cant even beat arcane mages. Arcane mage doesnt need casting. they just jump around and arcane barrage you. Making counterspell obsolete, while you cant counterspell them, they can counterspell you, because you actually need to cast frostbolt. Their mana shield is improved by talent, yours are not. And dont even think of using ice barrier because they will steal it and use it against you.

I have a paladin , and after pvping with a ret for years i can tell you there is no IQ required to play ret. The dps cycle and pvp cycle is the same, you jump into someone and jam whatever button you have not on cooldown. ocassionally popping heals, stuns or hand of freedom. thats all. Compare to mages, ret pally is like playing warcraft on whosyourdaddy mode.

Contrary with frost mage after pvping for years i have come to the conclusion that frost mages are extremely difficult to use and require a lot of anticipation and good judgement. mages are good at cc (which is great at arena ), and utilities, but not great at dishing out damages. and hence not suitable for world pvp (wintergraps and bg), and is significantly more difficult to play than other classes.

Long story short, i'm rerolling warlock.

So you are saying you've been pvping with frost for years and yet you say you can't keep close to a hunter, because your frostbolt got 1,9s cast? You know you should use frostbolt rank 1 in scenarios like that, to trigger instant cast frostfire and fingers of frost? And that frostbolt got less than 0,5s cast, which means you can easily permaslow your target?
And when arcane mage steals your ice barrier - steal it back. Those duels are pretty stupid, cuz you just juggle your icebarrier between each other, but that's just how it is. And at the start of the fight put some bull**** on yourself like fire ward and slow fall to make it harder for him to steal your shield.

I agree in one thing - frost mages are not the greatest, nor the most fun in bgs/wintergrasp, but hey, that's what dualspec is for. Just make fire, spam some living bombs and experience the most enjoyable class for dealing aoe dmg.

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Originally Posted by holyhammer

After pvping with frost mage for years i have come to the conclusion that frost mages are extremely good at cc (which is great at arena ), and utilities, but not great at dishing out damages. and hence not suitable for world pvp (wintergraps and bg), and is significantly more difficult to play than other classes.

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Just play frost in arena and fire or arcane in BGs. Whats the deal?
Fire mage almost never dies when you play it right because it has plenty of CC, disarm and sprint which makes you able to escape from almost any dangerous situation. LB and pyro spam makes fire one of the best suited specs in 40 man BGs.
Arcane has a burst dmg which is comparable to destro lock. A excellent build for 10 man BGs.

Honestly? You are right.

Frost mage is suitable only in arenas and duels, it just sucks elsewhere.

Roll a destro warlock which is a fire mage on steroids.

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Originally Posted by Drunkuser

Roll a destro warlock which is a fire mage on steroids.

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Why destro lock? If you want burst then just go arcane.

Are you new to ask that? Arcane mage suck at pvp, it's only viable because you are stuck with your team who peel you.

Destro warlock have more control, resi, burst, ... and they have heal with stone. But destro warlock have zero mobility (good luck vs rogue, dk, war, pala) and futhermore you have to control your pet everytime (not put an auto like all do). Do to that you need a lot of skill.

As i said this sm meta is not viable for mage even in arena. Seriously in bg i see pala, war, dk (hunter too, but that not new) running after my mage, ignor all other to kill mage because actually mage = free meat in bg/arena.

for the man who said "uh one year and you can't cought an hunter", yes you can cast fb rank 1 but if they know a bit what they do you 'll never catch him unless mistake. Due to engineering, cumulate with the potion of free action (that why pala, war, dk running after mage and can kill them easily), pet stun, traps,....

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Originally Posted by phrias

Due to engineering, cumulate with the potion of free action

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Half of the classes are unplayable if your target faps and I wouldn't call that "to know what to do", cuz this potion is just cheap trick for trash players, who can't play without it.

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Originally Posted by Heliox

Half of the classes are unplayable if your target faps and I wouldn't call that "to know what to do", cuz this potion is just cheap trick for trash players, who can't play without it.

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If you want tryhard, or because you are tired to be rekt by something. yes half of the class are unplayable, for example rogue 90 % of them are sub other don't exist or for fun (without pve).

Maybe this potion is a cheap trick, but this **** kill frost mage. I see more player than before using this.

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Originally Posted by phrias

Are you new to ask that? Arcane mage suck at pvp, it's only viable because you are stuck with your team who peel you.

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It was a rhetoric question.
As you said, arcane mage is viable when you stay with your team. That's pretty much what BGs are about.
It's obvious that arcane is suboptimal in arena but I was talking about BGs.

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Originally Posted by mier

It was a rhetoric question.
As you said, arcane mage is viable when you stay with your team. That's pretty much what BGs are about.
It's obvious that arcane is suboptimal in arena but I was talking about BGs.

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I mean even in arena you can climb with arcane by playing stupid setup (arcane/rogue is the one who came to mind). It's less optimal than frost but it's okay. And fire is really strong in 3s and bg (for those who were talking about fire spec).

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Originally Posted by holyhammer

I have a paladin , and after pvping with a ret for years i can tell you there is no IQ required to play ret.

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mage requires different mentality to play, you gotta play conservatively, use alot of los and try to make every fight 1v1, spam rank1 fb and dont be afraid to poli mid duel. having said that you gotta understand that wotlk pvp is unfun and unbalanced cesspit of **** where your ability isnt rewarded but rather class choice and your gear.

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Originally Posted by holyhammer

I know mages do very well in arenas but i am referring to pvp as in duels, battlegrounds and wintergrasp as well alongside arenas.

for pvp there is only one viable spec which is frost, you can pvp as fire or arcane but you are giving up survivability for damage. Being able to move while dishing out damage sure is nice, but mana shield will not protect you against rogues. Frost is the only spec that are will give you a fighting chance in all pvp scenarios against all classes.

and yet the frost mage is flawed.

I have realise that frost mage's doctrine is to snare snare and snare , and then take your own sweet time to dish out damage. That works in arena against a small amount of enemies. But in bg or world pvp poly doesnt work because someone 's going to break it with their aoe damage. Frost nova doesnt stick because someone's gonna break it before your frostbolt cast is complete. Races and classes have talents that reduce stun duration, making deepfreeze over before you even finish casting frostbolt. BG and world pvp requires you to just dish out maximum damage to maximum targets in the shortest period of time. Frost mage doesnt have that in its doctrine.

As a mage you can only have 1 armor type at one time and yet the armor type will only protect you against certain damages. ice armor will protect you against melee while mage armor will protect you against casters. What if you are fighting against both at the same time? say you are assaulting a node in arathi basin and find out that a a rogue and a warlock is guarding the node? If they both decide to jump on you, you have to make a compromise, and possibly waste 1.5 second global CD if you have to change armour. Either choice will have profound impact on the fight. Without ice armour, rogues will just eat you alive. Without mage armour , warlocks will fear the living hell out of you. So choose your poison.

in pvp every second matters, one second standing is one second your enemy has to get close to you. Which is why most caster class have spells that allows them to deal damage while on the move. Which is also why afflec is the conventional spec to go for warlock for pvp, not destro. Afflec and shadow priest gets to deal damage over time with mostly instant cast spells. Which means they only need to apply the buff successfully, and the remaining time can be spend running away from the incoming enemy. with arcane mage you have arcane barrage, with firemage you have living bomb and fireblast. With frost mage you only have icelance, there is no core damage spells frost mage has which is instant cast, a luxury all other caster class get to enjoy.


Hunters are absolutely nightmare for mages. Hunter's damage are considered physical which is mitigated by armour, something cloth users dont have. You can snare them all you want it doesnt mean anything, they still shoot you nonetheless. So thats the equivalent of warrior being able to hit you without being in close to you. The pet is annoying enough and poly a hunter's pet will not afford you the usual 1 min poly time usually enjoyed on mobs. So 10 seconds later the pet is up your arse again begging for your attention. The only way mage can beat a hunter is to get close to him so he cant shoot. Now that is challenging enough. Remember your frostbolt has a 1.9 second cast time, so the moment you stay still and cast, he runs off again and create the space to shoot you. I can only do frost nova + deepfreeze + icelance against hunter but its not enough to kill a hunter. Its just not a fair fight to begin with.

Also, if you encounter a hunter in a bg, say for example alterac valley, chances are his whole ****ing team is behind him. You dont really wanna go up close into him because that will draw fire from 20 other players. So bascially theres nothing you can do , you just gotta retreat and fall behind your team. Unlike a warlock or shadow priestwho can trade damage when being shot at .

I am not even going to get started on fighting feral druids. They can get out of your snare in a single click with no downside. You encounter them , you just run.

Even the water elemental pet is not permanent , and requires judgement to summon it at the right time for maximum impact. At least warlocks get to keep their pet around all the time.

Frost mages cant even beat arcane mages. Arcane mage doesnt need casting. they just jump around and arcane barrage you. Making counterspell obsolete, while you cant counterspell them, they can counterspell you, because you actually need to cast frostbolt. Their mana shield is improved by talent, yours are not. And dont even think of using ice barrier because they will steal it and use it against you.

I have a paladin , and after pvping with a ret for years i can tell you there is no IQ required to play ret. The dps cycle and pvp cycle is the same, you jump into someone and jam whatever button you have not on cooldown. ocassionally popping heals, stuns or hand of freedom. thats all. Compare to mages, ret pally is like playing warcraft on whosyourdaddy mode.

Contrary with frost mage after pvping for years i have come to the conclusion that frost mages are extremely difficult to use and require a lot of anticipation and good judgement. mages are good at cc (which is great at arena ), and utilities, but not great at dishing out damages. and hence not suitable for world pvp (wintergraps and bg), and is significantly more difficult to play than other classes.

Long story short, i'm rerolling warlock.

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Thanks that was nice post.

Hunters for me are the worst class I can encounter of every other race. Even dk are easier for me.