Lordearon ICC Buff/Nerf

Hello. Long time player here ,(to be precise since 2012).
My suggestion :

Either give the 30% buff to icc or nerf some fights a bit.
(I.E. DBS pretty much oneshots anyone under 20k hp (like a mage etc) if the individual is unlucky enough to get bloodboil AND bloodnova)

Why:

I understand the point of the buffs (in some cases the absence of buffs) is to make content more challenging.

BUT!

This is actually bringing forth a requirment of higher gear than the one you are actually raiding . IE in the end of the day you need to have a lot of 264ilvl items to be able to progress in a raid which gives you 251.

YES people are clearing ICC , i understand this, but most of them are either people who have been farming 2 or 3 first bosses of icc for MONTHS or were there in XMAS events and got geared by there.

The point of raiding isnt just to go in there as overgeared as possible. You go there for upgrades, and with current state , until you can actually "farm" these upgrades, you dont need them anymore...

I thought this post was going to be about the recent bugging/nerfing of Valithria, not QQ about 4.8k clothies getting oneshot in ICC25...

but also, Paladins have this ability called "Hand of Protection" which they can use on clothies to prevent such damage from occurring

If you actually read the post, i am talking for 10man . also you cant afford to have plenty of paladins on icc if you want a nice group combo. And i didnt speak about 4.8 clothies. You dont have any actual valid points , yet you call for QQ . Please if you dont have something creative to say , refrain from saying anything.

And before you actually suggest getting geared people and not "noob" 5.4 mage (I.E.) Ill say it again. Whats the point to do icc10 if you are already overgeared for it? And keep in mind the spell combinaiton i gave as an example , is dealing ~23k dmg almost instantly. Anything under ~23k hp is getting potentially oneshoted.

I did read the post, and yes sometimes rng will literally *bleep* you over on more than just DBS... not much you can do about it, and maybe if you can't have 2 paladins in the raid, you instead compensate with druids, or you have your shaman put down a stoneskin totem to help clothies soak physical damage a little better, and still, every paladin has a HoP which they can use, doesn't help vs oneshots as such, but helps your healers manage things better... including... DBS gets more blood power the more damage his abilities do, so if you have a pala HoP clothies regularly, DBS gets less blood power and hits tanks less and casts mark less... because all of that helps so much and it's literally using 1 pala gcd per clothie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bakas666

And before you actually suggest getting geared people and not "noob" 5.4 mage (I.E.) Ill say it again. Whats the point to do icc10 if you are already overgeared for it? And keep in mind the spell combinaiton i gave as an example , is dealing ~23k dmg almost instantly. Anything under ~23k hp is getting potentially oneshoted.

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Maybe priest can shield the person who would die otherwise? I guess that's too noob tactic.

HoP/Iceblock remove it entirely, HoS/DS, 10% Physicalreduce from Shaman/Priest, Improved LoH, PW:Shield, Painsup, Guardian Spirit and quite a few others prevent you from being oneshot.
Or simply: Have a proper comp that covers essential buffs. If you lack a priest/druid/2nd pala there's scrolls/drums for that. Use food. Even a mage surpasses 23k hp easily if he's buffed with essential stuff like kings, fortitude and mark. Commanding Shout is another thing you could add and tadah -> you're not going to get oneshot anymore.

Also the damage isnt "almost instantly". Bloodboil ticks once every three seconds. It's extremely telegraphed who's a potential oneshot and who isnt.
And on a sidenote: Especially mages benefit the least from additional gear when it comes to survivability. It's a staple in HC-Raids to remove bloodboil from mages with hop or have them remove it by using iceblock at deathbringer. It's also reducing the amount of bloodpower he gains, meaning there's less marks to worry about.
In short: learn to use the tools the game provides you. Lordaeron is faceroll enough as is already.

Guys once again , the point of the post isnt to research the tactics and ways you can kill a buffed boss like saurfang, but suggesting a change based on the irrelevancy (is there such a word?) of "Loot in the Instance you raid" vs "Loot you need to already have to raid said instanse".

Yes being hardcore and challenging is fine, but look at the mythic+ system of blizzard. Thats one way to provide more challenging content, but at the same time, said content provides accordingly more powerful loot.

In a sense , its like you need to raid icc25 first , farm it a bit, and THEN when you get items from icc25, then you are ready for icc10 .

You don't need to be icc25 geared to raid 10 man. You just can't faceroll it. The whole point of me and others providing info about your problem is the following: There's literal truckloads of ways to deal with the issue you provided. And there is for 99% of any problems you might encouner. But ofc it's easier to ask for a whole server to change gears instead of just moving onto the easy one or learn to use the tools the game provides.

Your whole thread is one huge "things don't go my way, so the whole server has to change!"-Thread. If things are too tough for you on Lordaeron -> Go Icecrown. Or, you know, at least become a decent player and gather those for a raid. Both are viable solutions.

Yeaaah not at all bro. As stated on my first message, im here since 2012. Meanwhile i literally cleared everything on icecrown, got BiS in every possible spec, in every possible class, cleared every possible instance in Icrown (previously Deathwing) . Currently my performance is at the PEAK for the corresponding gear of the toon I am playing. But telling me that you can clear Icc on Lord with "lower" gear than icc25 , is absurd. Take marrowgar. And explain to me , how can you actually proceed further in icc when marrow10 oneshots tanks that dont have at least 3-4 264 pieces, and how lets say in DBS , you can emerge victorious when you either dps the hell out of him , missing defensive maneuvers, or using defs and resulting in lacking dps which results in premature berserk (which ofcourse is also cut down . ) Please dont try knock away my statements with the "git gud" card, cause I AM good, but ofcourse i cant expect people to play at peak as I do , simply because not everyone has the same hours ingame, the same exp etc. etc. Lastly , I am not the only one admiting that doing icc10 with gear that is under icc10 is impossible . I dare you to show me ONE group who killed LK with ALL the items being 251 and under (except ofcourse ashen verdict ring, and maybe one or two more).

If you're "at peak performance on icecrown" w/o being able to figure out how to prevent a two-part 23k hit that has at least three seconds windup on a mage, which won't magically become much more durable from 245 to even 277 gear anyway, well...Idk what else I have to say but what's already said: Get good and gather people that actually are good. Lordaeron isn't meant to be pugged with random ppl you pick up in three minutes from global.

And marrowgar nh doesnt oneshot any halfway geared tank if he's stacked with another. Hell plate tanks are amongst the easy toons when it comes to gear because most ehp-stuff is available from vendor, drops in pre-icc raids in viable versions or outright bis, or is crafted.

You're not supposed to raid icc10 in 232 gear tho. But I guess you expect that to be a thing on lordaeron?

The harsh truth is that ICC is meant to be cleared at a crawling pace, tackling every wing over and over before being able to finish it and move on to the next. It is also buffed with item availability in mind. Which means that, yes, you're supposed to go into ICC with 245/258 stuff (good luck with ToGC tho) AND 264 Frost pieces. It is also a very no bull**** approach. You've been told what to do in that specific mechanic so I won't go through that again, but the gist is that if you have a way to deal with a mechanic, then it is your problem if you chose not to. Let's also skip over the fact that between a raid ready character (245/264) and a bis/semibis character (271/285), survivability isn't that much different, with some pieces actually giving less stamina for the sake of squeezing more damage out of its budget. And yet people with the same survivability manage to pull off heroic encounters everytime.

If anything has to be looked into, it's how some tanks are legit worse than others on equal gear by design.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cozzolino

If anything has to be looked into, it's how some tanks are legit worse than others on equal gear by design.

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the simple fact is that Prot Warrior gets a lot of help from icc 30% buff, and with no buff *and* bosses having more hp and damage, they're simply made obsolete, and while Bears are good in general, their core ability (dodging everything) gets impeded by a flat 20% decrease to dodge chance in ICC, which means a semi-geared prot paladin will take less damage than a geared bear...

and just in case you were talking about a 5.4k dk and a 5.4k dk... in gearing my own tank on Lordaeron I've found that... you can get a massive bump in defensive stats by switching an item (e.g. less expertise and dodge, more parry and def rating) but your gearscore goes up only by like 12, so when people in global just ask for tanks with gear, most tanks usually just go for higher gs gear instead of optimizing for being a better tank (using ick's rotting thumb instead of black heart for example)

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=241277
Do not post suggestions that include the following
Lordaeron realm features - Do not suggest or demand that the already-confirmed realm features be disabled, removed, etc.

Buffed content and no buff is Lordaeron's realm feature.