In-Game Ninja Policy

Hello All,

So I was recently banned for ninja looting an item in a dungeon, that I have completely served my time for. What I am looking for is some clarification on what specifies as a "Ninja" within a dungeon/raid in the game. I served my 5-day ban, and my appeal was reviewed on the 6th day and I received this response:
"As this account is no longer banned, this appeal is closed.

In future, do not roll need on items not for your characters active spec nor on items that you have no intention of actually using.

Code of Conduct:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?65037

Ninja related policies:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598&"

Now, upon reviewing both references; the Code of Conduct only seems to point my in the direction of the "Ninja related policies" thread that outlines what classifies as a Ninja or not. In that reference, the following is stated to specify what is as a Ninja:
"What qualifies as raid ninja?
- Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket).
- Changing looting rules during the raid, after it has started.
Example: You joined a raid that was being advertised as one with no reserved items and after first boss raid leader says that he reserves item x from last boss.
- Player exploiting game bug to bypass master loot. In such cases it is best if master looter would fill report that shows player leaving the raid and empty loot window.
- Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use."

Now, I understand that I rolled on an "Off spec piece" which I stated in my appeal that I was switching my main spec, and could 100% use the piece that I rolled for and won. After speculation and arguing within my dungeon group, I ended up trading over the said "Ninja'd" item to the player that had the 2nd highest roll anyway, but was still banned.

I'm looking for specifics as to the way the rules are written, and why I was banned. If you go by the wording associated in the "In-game Ninja Policy", I did nothing wrong, as it states "Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he CANNOT even use.". But, the response I received from the GM is stating that "Do not roll unless it is your characters active spec". Can I get some clarification, because to me and everyone I have discussed this issue with, these are 2 very different and misleading guidelines.

If I am wrong, can someone please point me in the direction of the reference that I can read to correct myself. Thank you all for your time :).

Under dungeon ninja looting falls the following:
1. Rolling need on an item not for your current specialization. If you join as a DPS Unholy DK you can roll for 2H strength weapons.
Example being Unholy DK needs 1H sword, be it with DPS or tank stats. Another example, combat rogue needing a tank sword. If you for example roll need on Agility polearm from HoR but a hunter needs it aswell, chances are you'll get banned. I hope I don't need to state the obvious where a paladin tank for example, needs on gear for all 3 specializations.
2. Rolling need on BoEs. Now this one is tricky. It depends on the group you are with. If the BoE is outdated (ilvl 200 BoE for example) in some groups everyone needs it to sell it for the auction house and in that case it's OK. However, if it's an upgrade for someone in the group, for example when you're leveling in Northrend and get into a dungeon and an epic BoE ring with agility drops from a lvl 79 dungeon you should probably greed the item if there's a class that uses it. This specific example happened to me when I played a feral druid. Me and a hunter needed the ring while everyone else greeded it.

Dungeon ninja looting is kind of blurry and it's mostly guided by common sense.
I'd like to add an additional example for lower level dungeons. Lets say a head piece drops and nobody has any head gear on. That head piece has stamina,intellect and it's leather. You shouldn't need on the piece IF IT IS NOT FOR YOUR SPECIALIZATION/ROLE. A tank or any kind of DPS that doesn't use intellect as it's primary stat SHOULD NOT NEED on it regardless if you have an empty head slot or not. The stamina might help a feral druid tank for example, but he shouldn't need it because it has intellect as its "primary" stat.

If there's anything else that needs clarification but that I didn't cover, please ask.

Ok, I understand the examples that you are using. And I get the difference between the MS and OS rolling. What I am requesting is a link to a reference to support your statement of "Under dungeon ninja looting falls the following: Rolling need on an item not for your current specialization".

Also, I feel that in my case, when I gave the ring to the second highest roller. That pretty much negates the ban, I heard the complaining from the people in my group, and I traded the item over. But of course I put that in my appeal, and the appeal was never even looked at.

It's not that I don't believe you, but I like to read the information directly from the source within their guidelines. Everything I'm finding is from the sources I have found myself, and been given by the specific GM that "Closed my ticket due to the ban being complete".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastweek

Ok, I understand the examples that you are using. And I get the difference between the MS and OS rolling. What I am requesting is a link to a reference to support your statement of "Under dungeon ninja looting falls the following: Rolling need on an item not for your current specialization".

Also, I feel that in my case, when I gave the ring to the second highest roller. That pretty much negates the ban, I heard the complaining from the people in my group, and I traded the item over. But of course I put that in my appeal, and the appeal was never even looked at.

It's not that I don't believe you, but I like to read the information directly from the source within their guidelines. Everything I'm finding is from the sources I have found myself, and been given by the specific GM that "Closed my ticket due to the ban being complete".

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There is no such specific reference or source. It's just something that's generally understood and accepted. Imagine paladins needing every single piece of gear there is in the game. Doesn't sound very fair does it?
As for trading it back, all I can say is that some people are bitter and tired of it so they don't care you traded it back. Appeals are lowest priority of all the tickets so they're looked at last - they take about a week for a reply.

Trading back doesn't undo it. If they hadn't known that they can report you and said a thing, you would have kept the item. The punishment is there to discourage ever trying that move again. Need only on items for your MS, if you need gear for your OS then queue with your OS. Simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dolcokidol

Trading back doesn't undo it. If they hadn't known that they can report you and said a thing, you would have kept the item. The punishment is there to discourage ever trying that move again. Need only on items for your MS, if you need gear for your OS then queue with your OS. Simple.

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So what you're saying is.. use my enhance gear to heal in dungeons, screw everyone over, but at least i'm playing my Main Spec right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lastweek

So what you're saying is.. use my enhance gear to heal in dungeons, screw everyone over, but at least i'm playing my Main Spec right?

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Yes. Maybe get some resto gear from reputations/ah/greed rolls and then start healing. Whatever works for you.

Well, what works for me is rolling on gear in the dungeon and not screwing my group over.. but ok.

Don't act like its impossible to make 2nd spec w/o ninja'ing some items. Some tips:
1) In dungeon, You can always ask if You can get something that You all greeded on - usually people dont care and will just give it to You
2) Reputation - having most exalted will bring You AT LEAST several items
3) Boes from ah - uncommon, rare, epic, sometimes for funny-low prices
4) Raiding with Your guild - doesnt matter if You have dkp system or nope, guilds raiding icc 25/icc 25 hc are disenchanting plenty of 264 and even 277ilvl gear just because nobody need it anymore. I dont see a problem why You shouldnt just ask for this item or bid minimal amount of dkp for it, ofc if MS passed on it

I don't know why people are still so lost about ninja looting. You need item thats dropped for Your main spec and it will be improvement for You? Press need. Otherwise? Press greed and let others get some items as well.