General PvE tier information list for Wotlk from 3.0 to 3.3.5

This is a response to a few posts I've seen over the past couple of months regarding a tier list to help new/returning players who want to know the general state of classes in the game before they create a character and join the community. This post is not to create division or set anything in stone for existing players, but rather to give some basic insight into the game in terms of PvE experience across the expansion and how certain specs can perform. From there, you can browse specific class forums for more comprehensive information about what it is you want to play. Other existing players' opinions are more than welcome to share their opinions.

As for my background just to clarify this is not a trollpost, I played in wotlk (live) and wotlk (live ptr), then moved to arena-tournament, then to Warmane (played on deathwing then icecrown now frostmourne). I have played this game and been apart of this community on and off for the past 10 + years. Also, I didn't make this list alone but with two other players of similar experience as well.
*Within a tier, there is no rank order.




S+ (Overtuned, get a lot for free, little downsides, can carry 25 mans, does not require a lot of time in game to play the class well, but they also have too many tools that they are favourites of experienced players as well)

Ret Paladin (Judgements, Auras, Art of War, Sacred Shield, Bubble, Blessings, Aura Haste, Debuff Crit, Mana Regen, LoH, Damage and ability steroids vs undead, plate wearing, Cleanse magic/poison/disease, built-in sustain in DS, Execute)
Resto druid (Rebirth, Healing power Aura, Innervate, Gift, curse cleanse, cure poison, Hurricane, Cyclone, Can't be polymorphed, Can't be immobilized, Can heal during movement, Excellent healing on party/raid with Wildgrowth, Good healing single target Swiftmend - lifebloom - nourish - seed, Revitalize, Roots, Faerie Fire [if no other druid])


S (Strong, relatively easy to play and hard to mess up, have 1 or 2 weaknesses, can perform consistently well, can carry 25 mans)

Holy Paladin
Protection Paladin
MM Hunter
Assassination Rogue
Arcane Mage
Discipline Priest
Unholy DK DPS


A+ (Attracts loyal mains, a little bit difficult, better for experienced players, do not get everything for free, need to know mechanics and class knowledge, Can carry 10 mans and with exceptional players, 25 mans. Requires class knowledge and game knowledge/time or how to gear/minmax, a learning curve)

Combat Rogue
Balance Druid
Shadow Priest
Fury Warrior
Bear Druid
Demonology Warlock
Frost DK DPS
Blood/frost DK Tank
Resto Shaman


A (Still great, much more punishing for new or bad players, will struggle to carry 10 mans but in the right hands can obviously perform very well. The difficulty either is in getting the gear to shine with these specs, or in mastering their rotations/weaknesses)

Fire Mage
Survival Hunter
Cat Druid
Elemental Shaman
Protection Warrior
Affliction Warlock
Frost DK Tank


B (Fairly straight forward specs, average performance, would not take more than 1 in a 25 man raiding environment. Generally whatever these specs offer, one of the above specs replaces with the same or better variant. Not necessarily a detriment to the raid but not a boon either. Good for levelling)

Destruction Warlock
Enhancement Shaman (Deserves C on some raid bosses.)
BM Hunter (pet BL)
Frostfire Mage
Blood DK DPS
Unholy DK Tank


C (Bench Specs, rather inconsequential but certainly can be fun)

Frost Mage (great for levelling)
Arms Warrior (damage [combatrog] buff, trauma [mangle], shouts, sunders)
Holy Priest (fifth healer)


D (For PvE? Terrible)

Sub Rogue (Not viable)



I might make a video with more detail if this post attracts interest, detail similar to what I mentioned in S+.

https://i.imgur.com/ALMSMtS.png

As this ranking might be true for tier 1, in 3.3.5, imo, resto druid falls to B on most bosses and S+ on very few, Hpal and druid tank climb to S+, Rsham to S, Fire mage goes S+, prot warrior and arcane mage fall to B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LCALDAA

As this ranking might be true for tier 1, in 3.3.5, imo, resto druid falls to B on most bosses and S+ on very few, Hpal and druid tank climb to S+, Rsham to S, Fire mage goes S+, prot warrior and arcane mage fall to B

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Yes, I'd definitely agree with some of these shifts in the meta on 3.3.5, particularly Hpal, Fire mage, and Rsham. However, I would maybe boost up prot pal to S+ rather than bear druid as prot pal, when talking about minmaxing, is the most reliable solo tank for LK content and Blessing of Sanc + Ardent Defender are two of the best talents in the game for LK. That's not to disrespect bear druid in any way, however, as they bring a lot to the table as a druid. Also bear druid does not get easier to push to those limits in 3.3.5, but still requires quite a lot of skill/class knowledge (rebirth in transitions etc) where prot pal gets the majority of its presence passively.

As for the rdruid drop, I personally agree. However, my two advisers to this list (who played a lot of Naxx, Ulduar content) convinced me its place in S+ as far as "over the expansion" is the criteria and certainly for the first two tiers of the expansion. In addition, a lot of players who played on live wotlk in 2008-2010 generally praise rdruid as the premiere healer at that time. With minmaxing and years of being stuck on the same patch, this idea in the general conscience has shifted to Hpal, but rdruid has a legacy that should not be forgotten for the expansions of BC into the majority of WOTLK.

Rsham, as being the pretty much only relevant shaman in 3.3.5, deserves S solely on the merit of Bloodlust/Hero alone, as it is the hardest carry spell in the game. But minus the bloodlust/heroism button, a shaman outside of some niche unique abilities (Cleansing totem (which can be RO+ and RO- for some fights), Tremor Totem (unreliable)) is a pretty average healer outside of tier set bonus t10 and meter padding with chain heal. Rsham also finds ways to randomly die moreso than any other healer due to their lower stamina stats, lack of damage mitigation when in bad situations (pala bubble - holy shock, druid barkskin - hots - swiftmend, priest bubble - penance - prayer of mending), and lack of easy healing options when on the move (Riptide is the weakest instant heal unless you somehow proc ancestral on yourself and live long enough for an earthliving tick), even though this death factor is somewhat offset by Reincarnation. Great 25man healer though.

Fire Mage definitely surpasses Arcane Mage in terms of damage and mobility+damage as the expansion goes on, but Arcane maintains its high reward for very little risk. It has the easiest 1,2 rotation in the game, brings solid buffs, and is the easiest DPS for introduction players.

Depending on bosses in ICC i'd rather have bear + dk on most bosses, even tho prot pal is a really strong choice and probably easier to perform well (but sanctuary isn't a big deal since having a disco gives the raid the same buff.

I personnaly downgrade rdruid because on most bosses (in 3.3.5) discipline priest surpass them by far, but again, on some bosses like queen, prutricide and syndra 25 heroic, rdruid is incredible due to its flexibility but is also way harder to perform as well as other healers in end game

Totally agree on everything else

Tanks: Prot Pal and Blood DK are kings though the whole expansion. Blood has a ton of CD's and are amazing as tanks on a ton of fights. Prot pals have similar utility which makes them super good (much of that utility shared with rets). Druids are very close after that, as they have a ton of EH and lots of CD's. They just have poorer threat than a dk or even a paladin. Prot warriors are not good. They are easily the weakest tanks.

The game changes too much between t7 and t10 to make a general tier list like that aside from some exceptions.

> Rets in S+ tier

They're massively overrated by people's biased memories of wotlk release (which doesn't apply to our private server clients) and the last tier where they're good. One ret is great to have in all tiers, but he's here to help, not to be #1 DPS.

> Rdruid in S+ tier

Once again one rdruid is nice for bosses where direct healing wouldn't be enough, they also technically are a DPS gain by giving energy/rage/runic to melee DPS where the class checks out. And that's all there is. They also have a strong T10 but not enough to make them magically better than other healers



> HolyPal/Disc/Arcane/MM/ProtPal/Unh in S tier

I'm ok with that. They're strong for 3+ tiers at least and/or mandatory in all raids. (Unh is super underrated). Push Assa down since Combat can start beating it at mid-T8


It'd be too autistic to me to review all this but:
Honorable mentions: Demono could honestly get a spot in S+ tier if you funnel loot to it, insane hidden value from the raidwide spellpower (they're better than totem of wrath as soon as T7 kicks in and they get reasonable gear).
Holy Priest is underrated and can top healing meters but is hard to play by Wotlk standards, so why bother?
Arms is better than Fury in T7, doesn't deserve to be relegated to the same spot as friggin "ret tank"
I've topped meters as enhancement till t9 and it's the most flexible interrupt in the game as well as extra 20 str/agi that noone else would provide
Affli dominates Ulduar progression. A tier sounds okay for them but they don't belong in the same league as prot warrior or even Survival who disappears after Ulduar usually.

Meh. I just kinda hate lists with S+, S, A. It makes you feel like B is garbage when it should be "okay"

affli is s tier

All lock specs should be at least S tier, with affliction being S+ tier. Frost dk should be S+ tier as well.

Ret paladin is no way S+ tier and should be B tier.

Fire mages should be S tier as well.

Fury warriors are B until ICC where they would be S+ along with fire mages once ICC.

Never in your life will you see a ret paladin carrying a 10man or a 25man, maybe in ICC where it's a bad group. Naxx? Or ulduar? Or TOC? Never ever.

It is impossible to rank these specs accurately without a seperate list for ICC and raids below.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seaneffigy223

All lock specs should be at least S tier, with affliction being S+ tier. Frost dk should be S+ tier as well.

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I main lock since retail bc. It's strong, but it falls behind a lot of other ranges as the expansion goes. Only demono has a real utility, all specs fall behind (in term of dps) compared to other casters. And destro is **** past TOC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seaneffigy223

Never in your life will you see a ret paladin carrying a 10man or a 25man, maybe in ICC where it's a bad group. Naxx? Or ulduar? Or TOC? Never ever.

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Either you're obsessed with recount, or you never ever cared about what other players do. Because ret, while having one of the best endgame dps, they are really flexible and have awesome CD that can be usefull all the time, and mandatory on some bosses (raid sacc, aura mastery, BOP, DI and salvation). All that without even considering buffs and replenishment. So they really deserve the S+ rank

So what are you basing this list off of? ICC? You can't just make a general tier list. If this is a general tier list, ret paladins are still not S+ at all because they only become good in ICC like fury warriors, yet you rank fury warriors way lower when they are #1 DPS in ICC same with fire mage. Ret paladins are just support class until ICC, and if think they are so special, anyone would take a shaman, or a boomkin/spriest as they bring in just as much utility, if not more.

You overthink utility too much, you only need one of each support class like, one ret pally, one enhanc shaman, one demo lock, etc. If you try to stack ret pally. GG your raid is going to suck. What you are forgetting is that holy paladins are required for fights. Not ret pallies. You NEED a holy paladin in your raid. Not a ret.

And just cause you main lock in retail doesn't mean it is the same as warmane. Warmane is different core, on patch 3.3.5. You say recount doesn't matter which means you must be a casual raider. If you want to be competitive you want people to be playing the proper specs. Locks will always be top 5 dps and usually #1 in all stages of the game, along with dks and rogues. Destro is not **** past TOC, it is just not as good as other lock specs. It will still easily outdps many other classes.

Go look at the wrath ICC logs, you think ret pally is #1 DPS? They never are, they only are sometimes top 5 in ICC and always lost to locks, war, mage, dk, rogue. Hardly top dps.

You don't understand how raid cd work and what's their point. Fury warrior has low utility and only gets his time to shine in icc while ret may not shine , but will always have good dps and huge utility. If you don't think you NEED at least one or 2 rets in endgame, you've clearly never seen it (and their cd are good all the time during progress). Stacking any class is useless since they all have ups and downs so i don't see how this is a point.

You're clearly spitting **** concerning endgame dps, Ret ranks #4 in endgame, Fmage is #2, while affli (the best dps spec for warlock in endgame) only ranks #9 and destro (which you said "easily outdps many other classes) ranks #18. So either you've never played during a progression and only farmed once the raid was overgeared, or you've only done ****ty pugs raid where no one plays properly. Either way, you're full of ****.

And if you're taking into consideration for this ranking the fact that until not that long ago, you could abuse of the "Nevermelting ice crystal" bug to get a huge crit opening on your corruption (and so during all the fight for some bosses), you're not honest.

Literally nothing what you wrote makes any sense what so ever.

You have a retribution paladin which is a god tier player and you have 9 bad people, what in the **** will he do there to carry the raid. Or a restoration druid great he gives resources has unlimited mana and can combat ress and give mana. What exactly will he carry when a garbage tank keeps dying every pull?

To help you out a bit S+ classes are those that can single handedly change the outcome of the fight on their own regardless of how bad the group is
Examples of such classes: Holy paladin and S++ prot paladin

Prot paladin: God tier early game single target and aoe tank, huge amount of passive damage reduction, 2 Taunts 1 being aoe, Dsac, and the most overpower ****ing passive talent in the game ardent defender which quite literally if you healer is **** brings you back to life. Unlike a druid that will do it in 3 seconds and by that time 5 ppl are dead.
Holy paladin: Dsac, sac, HOP, AM, huge burst healing.

S tier classes: All classes that bring huge raid benefits passively that other classes have but you need more of them.
Retribution paladin: Salv, sac, AM (can go Dsac spec), replenishment, aura haste
Boomkin: 5% crit, 3% haste, 3% hit, 5% arp, CR, innervate, great aoe clearing and just in case you overaggro u have 23k armor so you'll survive 1-2 hits of the mob.
Shaman (resto/elemental/enh): totems, bloodlust.

If you notice the pattern here you can continue the list and apart from bringing god tier dps affli shouldn't be in any of these 2 tiers because a boomy even tho he does 2k dps less be boosts the overall raid dps by 10% which is a lot more than a solo affli would do.

Shadow Priests bring replenishment and 3% hit, boomkins are very good and bring haste,crit and 13% magic dmg + 3% hit. Boomies are a must, but you should never have more than 1 boomy because they are a support class and their dps alone won't bring more by stacking them. The problem with ret paladins is their utiltiy is already brought by many other classes, you will always have at least 1 holy paladin in the raid, 1 prot pally, there is already 2 dsac and sac etc. Many classes bring replenishment so ret paladins are only useful to have improve blessing of might. Nevertheless, it's worth to have one ret pally but their dps is not good enough to consider them S+ and have more than 1 in a raid.

You need specs like affliction to pump out top damage once you have all your support classes like boomies. Affliction does tons more damage than a boomy and there is no need to take more boomies over an affliction lock when you already have a boomy. S+ tier should be prot pally and holy paladin for sure. Ret paladin is A tier.

You never should have more than one boomy/shaman in a raid cause obviously their buffs don't stack. At that point you should be having more plain dps specs like affliction locks and fury warriors to fill the rest of those dps spots. You would never see a raid stacking shamans/boomkins/ret paladins. 10 boomies doesn't increase the raid dps by 100%, only the 10%. You should be taking top dps classes after you have the utility.

https://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c...00000000000000

Best raid setup