Guilds scamming pug players in loot

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March 19, 2021
alibabaftw

Guilds scamming pug players in loot

Just wanted to discuss why this isn't considered as a scam or ninja. I see a lot of times that the semi guild runs are actually a scam when it comes to looting.

Guild players rolling items they don't need/should not have priority and then giving it to someone else in their guild, so you, as a pug practically has zero chance of winning. There are a lot of players like me who do pugs because we don't have the time to do guild runs. And because of guilds like these making the game unfair, it takes out all the good part of the game away. I mean, I spend my 4 hours to help you and your guild progress while getting zero in return. Shouldn't there be a policy against such looting.
March 19, 2021
Michaelko

Join not hardcore guild
March 19, 2021
angrylol

Quote:

Originally Posted by alibabaftw

Shouldn't there be a policy against such looting.

there is, did you even read?

In rules it's clearly stated that rolling for other players qualifies as ninja. If you collect evidence of players rolling for item they don't even need, so they "Stay in guild" and leader taking their rolls seriously, they will get punished. That is, if there were no other rules established.
March 19, 2021
Kovachut

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922

As angrylol said, there are rules that punish players who ninja items in dungeons and raids. If someone has rolled on an item, which they don't need (i.e. their class doesn't benefit from it, or they have a better one already), you are more than welcome to report the RL/ML via the ingame ticket system if the latter person has accepted the roll, so that the item could stay in the guild. Just click on the link I wrote above and follow the instructions.

However, I suspect that this wasn't what had happened in your case. I suspect that the highest roller passed on the loot upon getting claimed by the guild. If that was the case, then it could be explained by the fact that that person didn't want to use their DKP or Priority (EPGP) on a small upgrade. Let me give you an example:

Quote:

Players A and B are guildies, C is a pug. All three of them play as a marksmanship hunter, and DBVV drops. Naturally, all three of them roll for that item.

Player A /rolls 99.
Player B /rolls 33.
Player C /rolls 66.

So, the trinket is won by player A, and under normal circumstances it should be given to him. However, here's where the guild's loot system kicks in. Even though player B rolled the lowest, both he and his guildie are equally qualified to spend their DKP and compete for the item. Let's say that Player B has more points than his guildie, or that player A prefers to spend his points elsewhere. In that case, player B is allowed to claim the juicy reward. This scenario might seem unfair to player C, but he shouldn't forget that under normal circumstances (i.e. /rolling for items) player A would still say YES to the upgrade, and he wouldn't give it to anyone else. But since he has joined a guild with specific loot policies, he is expected to follow them, else he risks losing his membership.

Off-topic: Btw, OP, I can't follow your logic:

Quote:

There are a lot of players like me who do pugs because we don't have the time to do guild runs.

I have lost an abysmal amount of time participating in pugs than in guild raids. In my case, the time thieves were:

- assembling the raid and forming an optimal comp;
- players randomly going afk and slowing down others;
- players wiping on easy bosses, which led to rage quits and even more wasted time to fill in the gaps;
- replacing players who suddenly lost intererest in finishing the instance or claimed to not have enough time for that anymore.

If you find a serious guild, people there will have a fixed raiding schedule, and you will know when the raid begins, so you don't waste time waiting for a pug to announce that event. Not to mention, time wasting activities are discouraged there, and the time you spend will be more efficient.
March 19, 2021
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachut

If someone has rolled on an item, which they don't need (i.e. their class doesn't benefit from it, or they have a better one already), you are more than welcome to report the RL/ML via the ingame ticket system.

That's not quite true. The line talking about that is very clear about it pertaining to Group Loot cases, so probably only matter for Dungeons. Raids will more than likely be using Master Loot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachut

However, I suspect that this wasn't what had happened in your case. I suspect that the highest roller passed on the loot upon getting claimed by the guild. If that was the case, then it could be explained by the fact that that person didn't want to use their DKP or Priority (EPGP) on a small upgrade.

That would have to have been very explicit in the loot rules for the raid, so people who weren't fine with that sort of loot juggling - which they wouldn't know if true or just an excuse for guild mates to double dip - could not join the group.
March 19, 2021
Kovachut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

That's not quite true. The line talking about that is very clear about it pertaining to Group Loot cases, so probably only matter for Dungeons. Raids will more than likely be using Master Loot.

VVhen I wrote that post, I was thinking about something else. I was thinking how a person, who shouldn't roll on an item, does so, then he proceeds to roll high, and the ML accepts that roll, so that the item could stay in the guild. But, come to think of it, this falls under a different category:

"Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket)."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

That would have to have been very explicit in the loot rules for the raid, so people who weren't fine with that sort of loot juggling - which they wouldn't know if true or just an excuse for guild mates to double dip - could not join the group.

Fair enough.
March 20, 2021
alibabaftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovachut

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922

As angrylol said, there are rules that punish players who ninja items in dungeons and raids. If someone has rolled on an item, which they don't need (i.e. their class doesn't benefit from it, or they have a better one already), you are more than welcome to report the RL/ML via the ingame ticket system if the latter person has accepted the roll, so that the item could stay in the guild. Just click on the link I wrote above and follow the instructions.

I gave all the proof I could, but it's always "Not enough evidence". I mean, I literally gave them screenshots of:
- person A winning the item when clearly, he had a better suited item.
- and then person C, who actually needed that item but lost the roll to me.
- My argument with the leader as to why A is given. But the leader gave this absurd reason, "you can roll on the marks" meaning that I can roll on other items.
- person C's character profile before next reset proving that he was the real target for that item.

Keep in mind that person C and me were the only ones who had class priority for it. So A rolling was just absurd.

The only screenshot I missed was my little chat with person A. And the whole point of screenshots was C rolling and losing, but then he gets that same item before reset. Nothing happened.

As for participating in guild raids, I would love to. However, 2 resets is exhausting and takes a lot of time. I couldn't keep up with the guild requirements of being active. Eventually, I got replaced. Moreover, fixed raid times with guilds is another problem. Not everyone can give a fixed time to the game. A lot of people just want to play when it is convenient.
March 20, 2021
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by alibabaftw

The only screenshot I missed was my little chat with person A.

Did you even read the list of required screenshots from that link?
From what you're saying you don't have any of them. You don't have rolls, raid composition or even the most basic one: the list of loot rules for the raid. It's not you who say what's enough evidence, it's the GMs. Providing the minimum they want to even consider a report isn't optional.
March 20, 2021
alibabaftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Did you even read the list of required screenshots from that link?
From what you're saying you don't have any of them. You don't have rolls, raid composition or even the most basic one: the list of loot rules for the raid. It's not you who say what's enough evidence, it's the GMs. Providing the minimum they want to even consider a report isn't optional.

Okay I guess it is not clear, but I thought it was when I mentioned in the list of screenshots provided that I won the roll over person C. So no, I did have rolls in the SS and all the rolls were accounted for in the screenshot. The raid composition was all provided for in my raid frames, so there, that's done.

Yes, I did miss loot rules, but the loot rules are always so basic. MS>OS, p+b+anything reserved and stats prio>armor prio or vice versa. This wasn't even the case of armor prio. It was the case of using a weapon, and clearly I had prio on it. In 10 years of my experience with this game and pugs, they never ever mention that loot is going to be juggled between the guild members. My chat with the RL was also in the screenshots and it was obvious from the chat that he thought person A deserves and is going to get the loot. But it was a lie. I already had my instincts telling me that person C is actually going to use the weapon, and that is what happened. That was the reason why I provided the character summary of person C before the reset and also the proof that person C losing the rolls on the same item.
March 20, 2021
Obnoxious

Quote:

Originally Posted by alibabaftw

Yes, I did miss loot rules, but the loot rules are always so basic. MS>OS, p+b+anything reserved and stats prio>armor prio or vice versa. This wasn't even the case of armor prio. It was the case of using a weapon, and clearly I had prio on it. In 10 years of my experience with this game and pugs, they never ever mention that loot is going to be juggled between the guild members. My chat with the RL was also in the screenshots and it was obvious from the chat that he thought person A deserves and is going to get the loot. But it was a lie. I already had my instincts telling me that person C is actually going to use the weapon, and that is what happened. That was the reason why I provided the character summary of person C before the reset and also the proof that person C losing the rolls on the same item.

Read the last line of my previous post.