RDF will get you BANNED for sure - No Warnings

Hi all,

I have been banned on a holy paladin in the past for rolling on a far better ring as need, it had hit and a mage also wanted it as MS. I ended up giving it to the mage but was already reported by him and other players at the time. I received a 5 day ban here.

Secondly, I was also banned on another holy paladin for asking to be kicking from an RDF. My big mistake, a lesson for the wise, don't ask for a kick in RDF because that is bannable as disruption of gameplay. Didn't know this at the time. I don't believe this is fair because you can also just atl+F4 and receive no ban. Either way, the team will replace you quickly but you will be hit with a ban same as I was if you asked to be kicked. Received a 2 day ban here.

Just want to know what yall think.

Thanks,

Check these links:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=301141
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922

and this quote:

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

There's always a reason.

You went and NEEDED an item that wasn't for your class/role/spec. Or you probably thought you could need item for OS, when others GREEDED it, without asking them if it's ok. Or then you NEEDED an item that wasn't an upgrade to you.
To NEED for OS, the rest of the party must give their explicit approval for you to do so. IF even one doesn't respond, or says no, then you're not allowed to NEED for OS.

Maybe this helps you to remember what incident got you reported and general idea of rulings what comes to gearing in RDF [Unofficial]:

Spoiler: Show

RDF is very basic what comes to what gear you can need.

You should only need upgrades that are clearly for your class and role. Needing on tank stat gloves as DPS, while not even wearing gloves, is still ninja.

Armor types (beyond level 40):
Plate: DK's, Paladins, Warriors
Mail: Hunters, Shamans
Leather: Druids, Rogues
Cloth: Mages, Priests, Warlocks

Stats:
Strength: DK, Paladin, Warrior DPS's. Plate tanks as well, if combined with high stamina or other tank stats.
Stamina: Main focus on tanks. Healers and DPS's as well, if combined with other appropriate stats.
Agility: Hunters, Enhancement Shamans, Rogues, Feral druids. Druid tanks as well, if combined with high stamina or other tank stats.
Intellect: All casters. Enhancement Shamans and Hunters, if combined with Attack Power/Agility.
Spirit: Priest and Druid healers.

Crit/Haste: DPS/Healers.
Hit: Tanks, DPS's.
Expertise: Melee DPS's, Tanks.
Dodge/Parry/Block/Armor (highlighted with green): Tanks.
MP5: Healers.

While in RDF, you should forget end-game near BiS-level item priorisations, and go to what classes use in their basic level itemization.
So no leather needing Retribution Paladins, Fury Warriors or Death Knights, or Caster Druids or Shamans needing cloth.
World of Warcraft is a PC game, so you should have easy access to keyboard. So, use it and talk with other RDF members, if there's an item that you can't need, but could use as an upgrade. You'd be surprised to know if you talk and ask people nicely, good things could happen, but don't hold it against them if they decline your kind offer/question.

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I'll tell you what I think: this is what happens when people don't read the rules on the forums.

1st Paragraph: Yes, it sucks to be banned for ninja looting if you have returned the item to the proper winner. However, here's how things work - "due to some client limitations" the GMs can't check logs, so they rely on players' screenshots to give the full story in the reports. As you can see, this method isn't flawless, and it can be abused by the players. So, we have to deal with a dilemma here: either stick to this procedure and risk some innocent people to get banned, or remove the ninja looting rule and let players decide what's good for themselves. So, the question we need to ask ourselves is - what's the lesser evil? I can tell you right now that the rules were implemented for a reason.

If you are in the mood for reading some novels, in the following thread you will find some old posts of mine, where I talked about the absence of these rules:

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post3114646

2nd Paragraph:1. If you alt+f4, you can still get banned. Asking for a kick and not playing further is punishable, but the most important reason for that is the "idling" part. It's just a formality if you say "kick me" directly in chat. Even if you silently log off from the game, your account can still get suspended. Trust me, I reported such people in the past, and they got what they deserved.

CORRECTION: Come to think of it, I haven't reported every single offliner in the past as my previous paragraph suggested. Only those, who made it clear enough, that they were doing it to ditch the group. There were some players, who went offline at the start of the dungeon - these were rare cases, so I can't remember what I did back then. I think our group kicked them without filing any reports, because these guys could have logged off due to a bad internet connection. However, as I've said above, people who made it clear enough that they had an issue with the group, didn't need to say "kick me" to make me report them.

2. Just accept the 30-min deserter debuff! No one can force you to stay, if you don't like the group or have more important things irl. However, you have to accept the sanction.

[edit] Suggesting changes to the rules:

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Originally Posted by Mercy

Ban rules - Regarding durations or what we do and do not ban for is up to the in-game staff. If you have a recommendation, please send a private message to Aldtharios. Do not post it here.

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http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=241277

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Originally Posted by Lavadez

Secondly, I was also banned on another holy paladin for asking to be kicking from an RDF. My big mistake, a lesson for the wise, don't ask for a kick in RDF because that is bannable as disruption of gameplay. Didn't know this as the time. I don't believe this is fair because you can also just atl+F4 and receive no ban. Either way, the team will replace you quickly but you will be hit with a ban same as I was if you asked to be kicked. Recieved a 2 day ban here.

Just want to know what yall think.

Thanks,

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See, here's the problem with this part. Why would you want the group to kick you? Why wouldn't you just leave? People insist on being kicked because they think it'll get them a reduced deserter timer, and thus they feel it's worth inconveniencing the group so that they can receive a lesser punishment for not wanting to finish what they chose to opt into. Again, why else wouldn't you just leave? This is toxic behavior and it's usually an intent to game the system. So yes, you're going to get smacked for it. I don't think one should need to read the rules to know they'd get smacked for something like this. If you can prove to me that there is some other legitimate reason for wanting to be kicked instead of just leaving on your own, then I may be willing to change my opinion of how this works. But I'm not expecting that to happen.

@ Your first paragraph, I can understand where you're coming from with this. I do think the rules are harsh with this sort of thing. However, people have the ability to remove their reports at any time. For them to tell you "too late, I already reported you, sorry" is bull****. Their tickets can be backspaced, deleting, abandoned at any time.

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Originally Posted by Lavadez

Just want to know what yall think.

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I think you should have read the rules. If you did, you'd find out everything you did was a bannable offense. :)

Stop needing items that are not your main spec and you won't have issues, Healers hardly need hit raiting (they do but its for pvp and for their spells not to miss the enemy)

I've been strictly reporting each person that doesn't leave RDF HCs on his own.

I can feel your frustration man, as I have been in your shoes.

I (heal priest) asked for the party's approval to need on a shadow ring, nobody answered, I thought they don't even care, and I took that as a tacit answer and proceeded on needing it. After I won the ring, I got spammed in whisper by some feral druid threatening to set me up with a report. So he did and so I got banned for 5 (FIVE) days just like that, missing weekly resets on all 4 realms.

The community here is pretty elitist and toxic and all of their actions seem to be endorsed by the staff which seems so crazy to me.

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Originally Posted by nemil

The community here is pretty elitist and toxic and all of their actions seem to be endorsed by the staff which seems so crazy to me.

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From my own experience, people needing items for OS/DE/vendor in RDF's have greatly reduced, thanks to RDF ninja rules staff chose to enforce.

People jump quickly to "You did wrong, I will report you" instead of "Did you know that counts as ninja? You shouldn't need roll for OS in RDF, unless all others explicitly approves of you doing so. Silence/not responding doesn't count as an approval." It's not just Warmane, there are many games with people who rather point the finger instead of giving a hand. Probably due to people generally being fed up with others doing stupid **** all the time. Or is it because everybody are busy, self-centered? You want to do your quick RDF, so you don't have time to write few lines; but you have the time to make detailed report, upload images to image host and copy URL's to in-game ticket.

Directly reporting without trying to solve the situations, just like the druid in your example, begins their own cycles of "I report, because I got reported". Wouldn't a cycle of "Thanks for saving me from 5 day ban, I'll prevent somebody else from getting banned due to silly mistake or from not knowing the rules. If he continues, doesn't try to make amends, or just ignores my friendly reminder and keeps on repeating, I'll have to report him. At least I warned him well before making a report." be better?

A lot of this could be prevented completely, if people read the rules, or least have the general idea of them before going into RDF/PUG scene. And these trigger happy reporters would stop to think for a second.

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Originally Posted by Lavadez

I was also banned on another holy paladin for asking to be kicking from an RDF.

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You got a dungeon you don't want to play, so the group has to suffer 5 minutes because you feel entitled to a "refund". Tell me how is this ok?!
I've felt like NOT playing specific dungeons - maybe I don't want to spend 15-20 minutes in culling of stratholm, maybe I want a quick ~10 minute toc or vh or gundrak. I've felt like NOT playing with specifically low geared group - as a fury warrior, having more hp than the tank, for example, feels... no bueno. In no dungeon with such a tank was I able to NOT pull aggro with an autoattack. No joke, it's hard.
So - instead of making people wait in queue for ages(if I decide to be an entitled prick as the healer) or being mad at someone for playing the game(queuing dungeons to get gear, duh...), I just right-click + leave, take a breather or log another char. I sound like a saint, you say? No. I'm no saint. I just don't feel like ruining people's day, unless they're going out of their way to ruin mine(ninjalooting / disrupting / etc. ).

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Originally Posted by Keymouse8800

Healers hardly need hit raiting

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I suppose you didn't get to the part where OP said "HOLY PALADIN". You remind me of a prot paladin who got mad that the holy paladin in the raid rolled for gunship captain's mittens (intellect / spell power / haste / hit) and said "holy paladins don't need hit rating, they only need to hit judgement once per minute".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercy

If you can prove to me that there is some other legitimate reason for wanting to be kicked instead of just leaving on your own, then I may be willing to change my opinion of how this works. But I'm not expecting that to happen.

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When I'm kicked from RDF 50% of the time I do not receive deserters CD, other times it's a 10-15 minute cool down with is still better than 30 minutes to me. Additionally, I have also received no penalty at all for being kicked after five minutes in the RDF and was immediately able to join again. So to answer your question, you have a chance to receive a lower or no CD, verse you an almost guaranteed deserters CD if you leave on your own. I have over 20 screen shoots showing this.

Why on earth am I asking to be kicked?! To be honest I'm farming the off-hand that drops from the last boss on HOR HC for hpala, the mount from the 1st boss in Uld Pinnicle, and Ick's rotten thumb from the 1st boss in POC HC for tanks. I have killed each of these mobs over 20 times with screenshots and never received the intended drop. I was using the DF system for fast grouping, farm 1st boss in POS HC, get kicked, farm 1st boss in Uld Pinnicle, get kicked, immediately get into HOR HC and complete it. As I do this every day, it saves 30-40 mins to hop dungeons vs completing POS HC and Uld Pinnicle for example when you only need the first boss.

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Originally Posted by Lavadez

When I'm kicked from RDF 50% of the time I do not receive deserters CD, other times it's a 10-15 minute cool down with is still better than 30 minutes to me. Additionally, I have also received no penalty at all for being kicked after five minutes in the RDF and was immediately able to join again. So to answer your question, you have a chance to receive a lower or no CD, verse you an almost guaranteed deserters CD if you leave on your own. I have over 20 screen shoots showing this.

Why on earth am I asking to be kicked?! To be honest I'm farming the off-hand that drops from the last boss on HOR HC for hpala, the mount from the 1st boss in Uld Pinnicle, and Ick's rotten thumb from the 1st boss in POC HC for tanks. I have killed each of these mobs over 20 times with screenshots and never received the intended drop. I was using the DF system for fast grouping, farm 1st boss in POS HC, get kicked, farm 1st boss in Uld Pinnicle, get kicked, immediately get into HOR HC and complete it. As I do this every day, it saves 30-40 mins to hop dungeons vs completing POS HC and Uld Pinnicle for example when you only need the first boss.

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1) Your convenience at the expense of others... hmmm.

2) It's true that there's a cooldown at the very beginning of the rdf, but that doesn't matter if the others aren't fine to kick you just because that suits you better. So, you have the opportunity to take your 30-min debuff or get kicked, wait 10 minutes (mby less) for another df pop-up and risk your account getting suspended. VVell, everyone defines his own priorities I guess.

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Originally Posted by Kovachut

1) Your convenience at the expense of others... hmmm.

2) It's true that there's a cooldown at the very beginning of the rdf, but that doesn't matter if the others aren't fine to kick you just because that suits you better. So, you have the opportunity to take your 30-min debuff or get kicked, wait 10 minutes (mby less) for another df pop-up and risk your account getting suspended. VVell, everyone defines his own priorities I guess.

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Ya, my priority is using time efficiently on farms I have been running for weeks now with no drops. Saving 40 minutes, seven times a week is over 4 hours of unnecessary game play I can avoid. DF often replaces a kicked member in less than 2 minutes. While saving me 4-5 hours/week from your example above. I don't believe anyone is losing here and I'm for sure not trying to inconvenience any other players.

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Originally Posted by Lavadez

Ya, my priority is using time efficiently on farms I have been running for weeks now with no drops. Saving 40 minutes, seven times a week is over 4 hours of unnecessary game play I can avoid. DF often replaces a kicked member in less than 2 minutes. While saving me 4-5 hours/week from your example above. I don't believe anyone is losing here and I'm for sure not trying to inconvenience any other players.

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VVell, mate, you have the physical capability to do everything you think is right. However, don't expect GMs to defend you or to let you off the hook next time someone reports you. People here warned you about the possible negative consenquences if you continue to break the rules. My first post in this thread contains many links and valuable information that could prevent you from getting suspended again. I suggest you read it, but whether you would listen to what I've said, it's up to you. It seems that losing a couple of days worth of farming, when your account is banned, is a minor inconvenience to you in comparison to the minutes you would save every time you leave dungeons after being kicked by others.

FYI, length of bans for every upcoming violation is increased, so next time you won't wait 2 days if you disrupt others' gameplay. It will be much longer than that.

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Pardon me, but did I understand you correctly that your main spec is holy paladin, aka healer?

If that's true, then you greatly inconvenience other players with your actions, because healers and tanks don't usually join the same dungeon if either of those roles is missing. VVhy? That's because most players here play dps, and with fewer healers and tanks at our disposal not every group gets an instant queue.

If you had played as a dps, this would have been a different story, but it would have still been punishable according to the rules.

There's one fatal flaw in your "logic". When you use dungeon finder, you queue for a random dungeon or for a specific dungeon, you don't queue for "a specific boss". You're misusing the RDF tool and inconveniencing other players in the process. So ye, you absolutely deserve whatever ban you got for it, plus not getting the items you need. Simple as.

Play or leave.

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Originally Posted by shhnedo

There's one fatal flaw in your "logic". When you use dungeon finder, you queue for a random dungeon or for a specific dungeon, you don't queue for "a specific boss". You're misusing the RDF tool and inconveniencing other players in the process. So ye, you absolutely deserve whatever ban you got for it, plus not getting the items you need. Simple as.

Play or leave.

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Your logic is not straightforward at all. If I'm following you, if you don't complete the RDF you joined, you deserve to be banned. In that case, anyone that leaves the dungeons or ATL+F4 must be banned also as they are inconveniencing players in the same manner as you say I am. How is it any different to replace a player you have kicked for whatever reason, verser replacing a player that just left the RDF or hit ATL+F4? No difference, RDF will place either in less than 3 minutes. If you communicate with other players that you no longer want to play = banned. If you just quit playing, your good to go. Lol, you can just mute your game chat then and you're guaranteed no bans.

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Originally Posted by nemil

The community here is pretty elitist and toxic and all of their actions seem to be endorsed by the staff which seems so crazy to me.

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I can agree with you 100%, very elitist and toxic here. Just check out all the, "you deserve it" comments for not wasting 5+ hours of my life for every week in this thread in POS HC, lol.