Ninja rules on BoE items in Raids and 5mans

Please, help me clarify rules (here: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598, In-game ninja policy, 3rd post)

If a Bind on Equip (meaning it doesn't get soulbound to you when you receive it, so you can sell it on AH) drops, can you roll NEED on it, or is it still only Need if your active spec can use the item?

What about non-equipment items you can use, but are not technically for your class? Such as Lockboxes? Is it 'legal' to roll NEED on those?

This is not me trying to change the rules, I simply want the rules to be clear, maybe have an additional "yes, including any non-gear items / battered hilt / boe equipment", I'm fine with whatever the rules are, as long as I understand them and they're not ambiguous.

Right now it is categorically "- Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use." and "- In RDF needing on items for Off-Spec (unless everyone in party is explictly fine with this)." This basically means rolling need on BOE items is bannable, as is rolling NEED on lockboxes if you're not a rogue (presumably a blacksmith too?). If this is the intent of the law, i'd love it to be clarified.

This ambiguity leads to players who come from other backgrounds and other servers just doing stuff that's ambiguous on the rules and there's no argument against it because the rules aren't specific enough.

I've had ICC rep grinds where people all Need on BoE drops, and i've had people in 5man dungeons threaten to report ninja for rolling need on a boe epic.

Does anyone know any official stance of Warmane staff on this?

BoE's are treated the same way as BoP's - class that uses them has priority and you're not allowed to roll need.
For lockboxes, I've seen conflicting answers where some GMs said you can roll and some said you can't roll need (only Rogues can because they get skill up from unlocking).

ICC rep grinds are a different case usually since they're also BoE farms on one hand and everyone rolls need on all BoEs there. Dungeons and raids a different story as I said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbjorn

BoE's are treated the same way as BoP's - class that uses them has priority and you're not allowed to roll need.

---

Thank you for clarifying, i guess that's the main thing i needed to know.

Rolling need on boes is considered njina (unless they are icc items) because some classes cannot wear them so they don't have an opportunity to click on need.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starscream2413

Rolling need on boes is considered njina (unless they are icc items) because some classes cannot wear them so they don't have an opportunity to click on need.

---

You make it seem BoE's are something everybody should benefit from, which isn't really the case. Don't forget there are all sorts of BoE items. Seems BoE's only have monetary value for you. BoE's items are to be USED.

Are you also telling people can't need on BoE items that are upgrades for them, because everybody can't roll on them? Isn't that the case with 99% of the items in WoW? If it's an upgrade, it's an upgrade. Doesn't matter if it's BoP or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

You make it seem BoE's are something everybody should benefit from, which isn't really the case. Don't forget there are all sorts of BoE items. Seems BoE's only have monetary value for you. BoE's items are to be USED.

Are you also telling people can't need on BoE items that are upgrades for them, because everybody can't roll on them? Isn't that the case with 99% of the items in WoW? If it's an upgrade, it's an upgrade. Doesn't matter if it's BoP or not.

---

BoE items are technically an upgrade for everyone because they can be sold on auction house and they can use the gold from that to buy a BoE that will benefit them. So, everyone should be able to "need" on a BoE. Or alternatively, no one should be able to need on it and only greed (like how everyone can only greed on a Frozen Orb in RDF HC).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

You make it seem BoE's are something everybody should benefit from, which isn't really the case. Don't forget there are all sorts of BoE items. Seems BoE's only have monetary value for you. BoE's items are to be USED.

Are you also telling people can't need on BoE items that are upgrades for them, because everybody can't roll on them? Isn't that the case with 99% of the items in WoW? If it's an upgrade, it's an upgrade. Doesn't matter if it's BoP or not.

---

As an upgrade yes, but I hardly doubt that utgarde pinnacle boe (Throw) is going to be an upgrade for anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TotemsAreGreat

BoE items are technically an upgrade for everyone because they can be sold on auction house

---

Then that's not called "needing" it. You don't need the BoE, you need the gold. When a BoE drops, you're rolling for the gear slot, not the gold it could represent when you sell it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbjorn

Then that's not called "needing" it. You don't need the BoE, you need the gold. When a BoE drops, you're rolling for the gear slot, not the gold it could represent when you sell it.

---

That is correctly only for BoP items because they are nothing more than vendor junk if you can't use them but BoE items have a gold value that anyone can benefit from...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TotemsAreGreat

BoE items are technically an upgrade for everyone because they can be sold on auction house and they can use the gold from that to buy a BoE that will benefit them. So, everyone should be able to "need" on a BoE. Or alternatively, no one should be able to need on it and only greed (like how everyone can only greed on a Frozen Orb in RDF HC).

---

Thing is, there are people who might need that BoE upgrade item. Would be unfair for those who actually need it, and those who greed, well they greed for a reason..

BoP items can also be sold to vendors for gold, or DE'd and those materials can be sold. Does this mean you can need pretty much anything you ever want, on basis that you can sell it to eventually afford a BoE, or something else?

For Future Reference when in doubt you can use this mind set.

"Did this person Ninja Loot?"

Can you check at least ONE or MORE options as true:



A. Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use.
B. In RDF needing on items for Off-Spec (unless everyone in party is explictly fine with this).
C. Need rolling for other players to have 2 or more roll chances at one item.
D. Kicking players from raid for no reason, especially before distributing loot from boss kill that they participated in.

E. Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket).
F. Changing looting rules during the raid, after it has started.
Example: You joined a raid that was being advertised as one with no reserved items and after first boss raid leader says that he reserves item x from last boss.
G. Player exploiting game bug to bypass master loot. In such cases it is best if master looter would fill report that shows player leaving the raid and empty loot window.


if you CAN NOT select at least ONE option as true for your circumstance, a Ninja-Loot did NOT happen. You cannot apply A through G to lock boxes so there is no way to ninja loot them. The A-G listed are definition provided by Head GM Aldtharios.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbjorn

For lockboxes, I've seen conflicting answers where some GMs said you can roll and some said you can't roll need (only Rogues can because they get skill up from unlocking).

---

Those GMs would be wrong to not follow published POLICY of Warmane.