Unfair play - Ninja kicking

Hello,

Today 28.04.2022 i joined RDF heroic FOS, Trying to obtain the Armor Penetration trinket - [Needle-Encrusted Scorpion]. Currenty staying on 39 kills. Today it was going to be the 40-th try to take this trinket.
Server crashed. 1 DPS did not return.
I asked to continue 4/5, because the last boss is not hard. And we are overgeared.
Actually i can solo it.
Our healer requested que several times. I declined, because i carried the dungeon, while dpsing 50-60% of the damage done. I was also tanking, when tank was missing.

The healer told me to accept the queue or I wil be the next kicked.
-> I was kicked.

So i had no chance to kill the last boss to finally obtain the trinket.

I can consider this as ninja looting, because there was any other issue in the dungeon.
Noone was arguing or whatever. And left was only 3 trash mobs and the last mobs.
Again it is solobale as DK. And we were 4 overgeared people (tank and healer included).

5th player was not necessary.

WDYM ninja kick? Group kicked you because they wanted to do it with 5, and you didn't. You disrupted their gameplay by denying the queue repeatedly. You prioritized your own greed over group. Sure the boss is easy, doesn't mean you can do what you want in RDF. Next time make a premade if you wanna go with 1-4 players, if that's too hard for you, don't complain how others want 5 players in RDF.

No, not really. Seems pretty clear from your own explanation that they wanted to do it with a full group, whether necessary or not, and you refused to do it the way the group wanted, so they removed you. You're blaming just this healer, but remember he couldn't kick you out on his own, it would take the rest of the group voting for it.

So for 39 days you've been farming a trinket.
For those same 39 days you could've bought it with points twice(assuming you gain >=1 point per day). But you rather force people to do something they don't want to, get kicked for it and complain on the forum...

Better start clicking that points button in My account section.

Thank you for the nice replies. Useful as always.
Today on my 42th attempt. The trinket dropped. We were all cloth party + tank paladin.

Of course the paladin tank ninja looted it. He is now trying to sell it to me. He does not know any english. He even tries to sell another trinket. He has 0 idea about the game, what is he doing, or why is he doing it.

Have all the screenshots and now attaching. Game is perfect, community even greater. Forum assistant - useful as always.

Finally He traded the trinket :

Now tell me, all this thread here is fine with you. Losing so much time receiving kicks all arround for just willing to play.
Some people ninja looting item and trying to sell it.

The only option you give me is to buy the trinket with vote points. I Have better one. Maybe donate money to your server so i can buy it.

Is this the point of playing wow. I enjoy to earn things to play to earn.

No idea what "ninja-kick" is.
You denied role check. You did it for your own good, not for the group. 3 other people didn't agree but you put your own desires above desires of 3 other people in your party. For this you were kicked.
I don't see a problem. If you can't be a team you won't be a part of the team.

On the other hand, I'd ask moderators if your constant role check canceling can be considered as disturbing gameplay.

Then earn it by playing, instead of whatever this is. What you get in your bag is what you earned, not something what you "think you earned". Dudes keep ninja it from you, because you set yourself up for failure - maybe that is your objective? Because reasonable players make a party with trustworthy acquaintances, clear it every day until they get it. Even if no one wants to play with you, you can tell your random party at the beginning that your reason to be there is that trinket, so they know there will be consequence if they steal it, sounds like a basic and nice boost in chances.

Also, remove those screenshots, it's probably against the forum rules. And we all have seen it and experienced exactly this same kind of situations on our own skin, it's common and ordinary situation. Report the guy properly if it bothers you.

So OP, you are UH dk that spent 6 weeks to get NES? Not only this trinket is almost useless for you (your kit benefits from crit/AP/Str way more), but you also had 6 raid resets to get better trinkets from Uld25, ToC25, ICC10/25, RS25. Not to mention you'd have 50 points to spend on any trinket up to ilvl 239. Instead you went to threat new player for god knows how long over thing that you'd get with 3 clicks on site and no drama at all.
Judging by all of that, there is indeed a problem, but not in "ninja kicking" entitled princesses. It's in ayers like you, who make big fuss out of nothing, blame other players for refusing to follow your genius plans and so on...

Option to get better trinket: All the trinkets are resreved in raids.

And about the Armor penetrationa and crit rating.
I am having offspeck Blood DPS and currently gearing for blood dps. I am playing as unhoyl to boost the group and finish the dungeon faster...

And about informing people in group, that i am doing this dungeon for the trinket. I do everytime. But some players join and do things only to prevent others from reaching some goals.

And needing the trinket as Prot paladin, when Melee DPS obviously need it and stated that this trinket is very desired is absolutely ninja looting.

I opend this thread, because i feel so descrimanted in this server.

1. People cannot play this game. They are so bad at it, that this is unbelievable.
1.1 Being bad in this game force people to require higher gear to overcome bad plays to complete boss fights.
1.2 Requiring higher gear is big wall people have to climb to start playing something more challenging. Like LK kill or Heroic fights.

2. Reserving all the good items.
2.1 Most of the players organizing raids are already having several characters with close to Full BiS items, are reserving items for their alt characters is selfish. You blame me for selfishness (decling group queue infront of the last boss (easy as ***** boss able to be solo by almost every DK)).

3. I agree on all things above and trying as hard as i can to reach some goals (42 attempts to do a heroic dungeon). Right before the goal players are trying to stop me to reach the goal, where they have 0 benefit to get the benefit before me is descrimating, cuz i am not having guildies or friends in the realm. I am trying to obtain the best of what is available as pub player with 0 friends ingame.

Now you will say. Make a raid and reserve an item. I do raids and always i do raids with 0 Reservations, not even scrolls BOE or Orbs. Everything is rolled with the only rule - to be Mainspeck roll. I have not stopped anyone of getting whatever he/she need:

One example for the greed in this realm you are trying to defend, while you were blaming on me, that i am not a team player:

ToC 25 normal - Some people joining to gear above 5kgs, but most people are going there for badges and trinkets.
The group was pre-made by several BiS paladin - warriors Heroic Gear + Shadowmourne, STS heroic (full bis).
In the group there was another paladin (tank) with arround 3-4k gs. 0 gems 0 enchants 0 gear (all mixed). I asked the leader, if this is his friend. He said yes.
Ok i agree with that, they want to boost him.
But the greed starts now. All of these full BiS players roll for tokens and trinkets, when they obviously need 0 gear from any raid, again full BiS.
The reason for this is, that they will be able to trade the gear they win to the paladin, who will have 0 impact to the boss fights.

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All this things i see everyday made me make this thread, but as i see your comments here. Maybe i play with players like you, if not you.
Of course you will like to have rules like this.

BS. If all trinkets were reserved, there would be no PUG raids at all. And if you don't join guild for "fair" distribution, it is your choice, not server problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

Option to get better trinket: All the trinkets are resreved in raids.

And about the Armor penetrationa and crit rating.
I am having offspeck Blood DPS and currently gearing for blood dps. I am playing as unhoyl to boost the group and finish the dungeon faster...

And about informing people in group, that i am doing this dungeon for the trinket. I do everytime. But some players join and do things only to prevent others from reaching some goals.

And needing the trinket as Prot paladin, when Melee DPS obviously need it and stated that this trinket is very desired is absolutely ninja looting.

I opend this thread, because i feel so descrimanted in this server.

1. People cannot play this game. They are so bad at it, that this is unbelievable.
1.1 Being bad in this game force people to require higher gear to overcome bad plays to complete boss fights.
1.2 Requiring higher gear is big wall people have to climb to start playing something more challenging. Like LK kill or Heroic fights.

2. Reserving all the good items.
2.1 Most of the players organizing raids are already having several characters with close to Full BiS items, are reserving items for their alt characters is selfish. You blame me for selfishness (decling group queue infront of the last boss (easy as ***** boss able to be solo by almost every DK)).

3. I agree on all things above and trying as hard as i can to reach some goals (42 attempts to do a heroic dungeon). Right before the goal players are trying to stop me to reach the goal, where they have 0 benefit to get the benefit before me is descrimating, cuz i am not having guildies or friends in the realm. I am trying to obtain the best of what is available as pub player with 0 friends ingame.

Now you will say. Make a raid and reserve an item. I do raids and always i do raids with 0 Reservations, not even scrolls BOE or Orbs. Everything is rolled with the only rule - to be Mainspeck roll. I have not stopped anyone of getting whatever he/she need:

One example for the greed in this realm you are trying to defend, while you were blaming on me, that i am not a team player:

ToC 25 normal - Some people joining to gear above 5kgs, but most people are going there for badges and trinkets.
The group was pre-made by several BiS paladin - warriors Heroic Gear + Shadowmourne, STS heroic (full bis).
In the group there was another paladin (tank) with arround 3-4k gs. 0 gems 0 enchants 0 gear (all mixed). I asked the leader, if this is his friend. He said yes.
Ok i agree with that, they want to boost him.
But the greed starts now. All of these full BiS players roll for tokens and trinkets, when they obviously need 0 gear from any raid, again full BiS.
The reason for this is, that they will be able to trade the gear they win to the paladin, who will have 0 impact to the boss fights.

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All this things i see everyday made me make this thread, but as i see your comments here. Maybe i play with players like you, if not you.
Of course you will like to have rules like this.

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Rolling for OS trinket may have gotten you ninja banned, depending what your other trinket was (if higher ilvl, most likely) and depending how GM would see it.
Informing group you needing it means nothing, if they don't agree to it explicitly. You know, they all would need to say something in lines of "okay / fine by me / yes", and if even one didn't agree to it -> no go.

1. There are new players who are unfamiliar with WoW's (loot) system, and a lot of players who are new to different classes. There's also language barrier to consider. There are also bunch of slow learners, skittish people and possible actual disabilities player(s) might have. There are no guides, tips or anything like that to provide information for a newer player in-game.
1.1 It also makes raids faster, more guaranteed kills and progress, and generally works as a safety net to overcome little accidents when people screw up a mechanic.
1.2 Ofc, harder content requires better gear. That goes without saying. Can't get boss kill if it relies on having big dps, but big dps is nowhere to be found.

2. Ofc, I do the work of commanding 24 players to do their bare minimum so that we get at least some kills in. Such as telling DPS to focus this or that, or for OT to taunt that, or pop def CD's now and so on. Even calling Blood lust/Heroism is a chore as some just can't pay attention.
2.1 If they do the leading part right and nicely, I don't give a ****. If they slack, then it's annoying but still, I agreed to reserves as I stayed in the raid.

3. I've achieved 6.2K on combat rogue "alone". Relying on PUG's to gear. GS could be higher, if I would still play the character more.

How you set up your PUG's loot rules is up to you.

Your ToC25 example could be considered ninja looting, depending on loot rules set for the PUG. E.g. if trophies were MS>OS or free. Were the BiS people rolling for achievement set, or for whatever. Though rather clear they use loot rules to their benefit to gear the fresh tank. Sometimes you should leave the raid if you feel it's sketchy.

"Playerbase" or "community", they don't owe you any trinkets, invites, knowing how to play or speaking your language. What you do is pick a bunch of players from all those thousands, players on the same wave as you. Enjoy fair loot distribution, enjoy fair rules and highest skill there is.

Expecting something from random dudes you will never see again, it's nuts, seriously high level dissonance between what the game is and what you think it should be. Whole game is built around players with similar interest going for things they like to do, the way they like to do them. So make or join a guild, you will have 100 times better game. I know it's really old concept, game has the balls to require to make game friends to get somewhere.

It will be alright.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

And about the Armor penetrationa and crit rating.
I am having offspeck Blood DPS and currently gearing for blood dps. I am playing as unhoyl to boost the group and finish the dungeon faster...

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And for this you can be banned. In RDF you roll for your current spec. If a single person disagree, even if this person cannot have use from that item, pressing "need" is considered as ninja-looting and can be reported.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

2. Reserving all the good items.
2.1 Most of the players organizing raids are already having several characters with close to Full BiS items, are reserving items for their alt characters is selfish. You blame me for selfishness (decling group queue infront of the last boss (easy as ***** boss able to be solo by almost every DK)).

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The picture of reserving is pretty simple - a person takes additional job organizing a raid. Spam on global, checking gear, talking to people, filtering trolls, explaining the tactics if required, leading the raid group through every fight, often giving consumables, distributing loot. The person can spend hours of his time depending on the raid's difficulty, some people are looking for pugs for days, inviting in a raid that was appointed on a specific date.
The quality of performed job can be different from one person to another, but the job is done in addition to regular class/role duties of the raid organizer. For additional job the leader wants additional benefits.
Doesn't look that selfish anymore, does it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

i am not having guildies or friends in the realm. I am trying to obtain the best of what is available as pub player with 0 friends ingame.

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Find some? You're playing a social game where you can't isolate yourself from other people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

Now you will say. Make a raid and reserve an item. I do raids and always i do raids with 0 Reservations, not even scrolls BOE or Orbs. Everything is rolled with the only rule - to be Mainspeck roll. I have not stopped anyone of getting whatever he/she need:

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And why? Reserve, just know the borders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manoel9042

But the greed starts now. All of these full BiS players roll for tokens and trinkets, when they obviously need 0 gear from any raid, again full BiS.
The reason for this is, that they will be able to trade the gear they win to the paladin, who will have 0 impact to the boss fights.

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If items were not reserved it's simply a case of ninja-looting. It should be reported with proper evidences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

2. Ofc, I do the work of commanding 24 players to do their bare minimum so that we get at least some kills in. Such as telling DPS to focus this or that, or for OT to taunt that, or pop def CD's now and so on. Even calling Blood lust/Heroism is a chore as some just can't pay attention.
2.1 If they do the leading part right and nicely, I don't give a ****. If they slack, then it's annoying but still, I agreed to reserves as I stayed in the raid.

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I'd like to add more examples of the challenges a RL has to deal with in your list:

• random afk-ers, disconnect-ers, people who suddenly have "no more time to play", and just poor players in general. The RL needs to replace them in the middle of the raid, and thus finding replacements takes significantly more time or it can lead to a disappointing premature RO.
• loot drama, e.g. if a player hasn't read the RL's initial post, where he clarifies the loot rules.
• forming a raid with a good comp takes a lot of time to do. Trying to fill the important roles such as tanks and healers can sometimes be the whole reason for the postpone of the raid. Add the possibility that some people leave the raid prematurely (either due to valid reasons or just being impatient), and RLs have yet another annoyance to deal with.

Just like some commenters here, I also support RLs who reserve items or BoEs/Primos/Shards. They deserve some kind of a compensation for the trouble they face. Admittedly, there are cases where RLs are a bit too greedy and expect the rest of the raid to boost them, but aside from that leading raids adds additional pressure to the people doing it.

Not gonna read the walls of text(even though maybe someone already suggested this): LITERALLY MAKE A TOC5 GROUP TO FARM BANNER AND RESERVE IT. Banner is 10 times more useful to you than NES.