Is Libram of Valiance's strong enough for a Prot Pally to forego the use of SoC?

LoValiance confers 200 Strength when using SoVengeance, which, for a Prot Pally, means 120 Spellpower and 100 Block rating. The Block is marginal, but 120 Spellpower is significant considering how damage scaling works with spells like Consecration, not to mention the EHP it confers to Sacred Shield. What I'm trying to ascertain is, is that boost in Spellpower and, by proxy, the threat generated by spells like Consecration, strong enough to outstrip Seal of Command's multi-target burst threat in both short-term and prolonged fights?

Or is SoCommand still going to be the dominant threat builder for tanking trash and standard pulls in a dungeon, and I should default to Libram of the Sacred Shield in that case and reserve Valiance/SoV only for tanking boss fights?

Drop SoC, save 1 Talent point.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Drop SoC, save 1 Talent point.

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What do I spend it on, get Spieitual Attunement 2 to ease mana problems in long fights?

I’m using a 58/13 Prot/Ret build.

Depends on what you are up to, maybe you need mana, maybe you need shorter stun CD, etc.

But the SoC is not necessary, you got tools for multitarget threat, unless you are doing some very secific thing I can't imagine.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Depends on what you are up to, maybe you need mana, maybe you need shorter stun CD, etc.

But the SoC is not necessary, you got tools for multitarget threat, unless you are doing some very secific thing I can't imagine.

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This is the current build: https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#sZE0tAbuMusIufdxfMz

If I were to drop SoC and put that point into Spiritual Attunement 2, I'd also probably consider dropping Divinity and putting those 5 points into Seals of the Pure to get my SoVengeance damage up. Unless dropping Divinity is ill-advised.

Spiritual Attunement 1/2 is fine I think. Depends if you can keep your mana up.
Maybe more beneficial would be to move points from Vindication to Pursuit of Justice. Being in a right place faster as a tank is a nice thing.
Instead of Seals of the Pure probably better idea is to put them into Conviction. Leave 1/5 Divinity, then you can take it and one from Conviction to get 2/2 Improved Hammer of Justice for Valkyrs. Tough this can not be based on anything, maybe you are doing other things and are all good on threat, 5/5 divinity might be far better. Only you can answer that.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Spiritual Attunement 1/2 is fine I think. Depends if you can keep your mana up.
Maybe more beneficial would be to move points from Vindication to Pursuit of Justice. Being in a right place faster as a tank is a nice thing.
Instead of Seals of the Pure probably better idea is to put them into Conviction. Leave 1/5 Divinity, then you can take it and one from Conviction to get 2/2 Improved Hammer of Justice for Valkyrs. Tough this can not be based on anything, maybe you are doing other things and are all good on threat, 5/5 divinity might be far better. Only you can answer that.

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I feel like Divinity I can take it or leave it, but I deliberately dropped Pursuit of Justice after hitting 80 because of Tuskarr's Vitality and Titanium Plating diminishing its usefulness.

I guess the more offensive option is to drop SoC, Divinity and Judgments of the Just, and instead take Conviction and Crusade to up my damage/threat. So it would look like this:

https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufzxfMx0c:

I feel like JotJ and the melee attack speed debuff it gives is negotiable, but Vindication is not. Reducing attack power by 574 against every enemy my hammer strikes cuts incoming damage considerably.

In fact, this guide actually lists a variation of the build I just linked, the only difference being it takes two points from Conviction (3/5 instead of 5/5) and puts them in Divinity.

https://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=349241

It's the second talent spread, a "More defensive Main-Tank"

Right, my perspective is to build as universal build as possible, with stun CD reduction to make it easy, since I farm LK. Little it costs in tanky-ness, idk never felt it.

And the Pursuit 15% speed, it is nice, but it's value drops as you gain experience and know where to be. Maybe 2 talents is not worth 15%+ doink stamina on shield+boots as opposed to 8% from boots and less stamina. I guess it's just whatever feels better for each player.

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Right, my perspective is to build as universal build as possible, with stun CD reduction to make it easy, since I farm LK. Little it costs in tanky-ness, idk never felt it.

And the Pursuit 15% speed, it is nice, but it's value drops as you gain experience and know where to be. Maybe 2 talents is not worth 15%+ doink stamina on shield+boots as opposed to 8% from boots and less stamina. I guess it's just whatever feels better for each player.

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It's one reason why I've always liked Prot Paladins in Wrath, it's not completely cut and dry like some builds, it's fluid, there's room for individuality.

When I get fully geared and am ready to drop Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous for Glyph of SoVengeance, I'll change specs and see how it performs without Seal of Command. At 4.4gs I'm still struggling to complete with some DPS classes, especially Boomies.

try also this

1. keep Seal of Command talent
2. use seal dancing , macro it so when change seal also change libram
- on multiple adds change to Seal of Command and equip [Libram of the Sacred Shield] (Increases your block value by 450 for 20 sec each time you use Holy Shield) or [Libram of Obstruction] (Your Judgement ability also increases your shield block value by 352 for 10 sec)

- on single target (especially boss) use Seal of Venq/Corruption and equip [Libram of Valiance]

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Originally Posted by angrylol

Right, my perspective is to build as universal build as possible, with stun CD reduction to make it easy, since I farm LK. Little it costs in tanky-ness, idk never felt it.

And the Pursuit 15% speed, it is nice, but it's value drops as you gain experience and know where to be. Maybe 2 talents is not worth 15%+ doink stamina on shield+boots as opposed to 8% from boots and less stamina. I guess it's just whatever feels better for each player.

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So this new, more offensive-oriented build seems to be working well. I'm not having the kind of aggro problems against high-gs players I was with Seal of Command. Libram of Valiance with SoVengeance has some serious threat output when the buff is in play. Not having any survival problems either.

https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#sZV0tAbu...zxfMx0c:Gkpzcm

Really liking it so far.

By the way, for a Prot Pally, which Tank weapon wins out in the end? Rimefang's Claw, or Falric's Wrist-Chopper?

I know they're almost identical in stats, basically just trading 31 Dodge rating and 0.4 DPS for 31 Block rating and a 1.6 swing speed ratio. I have Rimefang's Claw at present, enchanted with Mongoose, and I'm trying to farm Falric's Wrist-Chopper and intend to slap it with Blood Draining, but my HoR farming luck has been pretty rotten as of late.

But even if one is better than the other by the slimmest of margins, which one wins out for a Prot Pally?