Which set up you guys go for when you are making a icc 10m raid? Pala+DK tanks? HPala+RDudu+Disc? How about dps?
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Which set up you guys go for when you are making a icc 10m raid? Pala+DK tanks? HPala+RDudu+Disc? How about dps?
PUG raildleads (especially on Lordaeron) are pretty straightforward, they try to make their raidcomp something like that:
MT: BDK OT: PPaladin
MDPS: RPaladin, CRogue
RDPS: Bala, Hunt, SP, Lock
Healers: HPaladin, RShaman
If they will strugle to fill positions with one of those classes they may consider other options, like FWar instead of CRog or Mage instead of Lock or SP. But it is almost impossible to get into icc10 raid with DPriest or RDruid even if you link all required achieves.
And if you're playing on Icecrown it doesn't matter, lol. The only builds aside from meme/pvp specs that are considered garbage are prot warrior and holy priest.
Ideally you want BDK + prot pally, altho bears are absolutely fine too, healers shammy (since you need a shaman and they're mainly only good as healers) + holy pala or disco priest. RDPS - ideally MM hunt, bala druid, SP and/or lock, melee - ideally a ret + any well geared pumper warr or rog, even DK.
10N can be solo healed and solo tanked with decent gear + knowledge. Prot pala would be ideal solo tank. Shammy or HPala as solo healer.
Lets specify that it's because people on the pug scene cannot play these classes and therefor the casual playerbase thinks they are simply bad speccs.Quote:
Originally Posted by duuiiq
Combine this with the fact that when it comes to 10man raids people want as much of the best buffs / combo's together as possible and Warriors and Priest buffs are not considered "best" in those regards.
Warrior Tanks have no failsafe built into their talents which makes it a very unforgiving Tank class to play, 1 slip up and you end up cold on the ground, but on the other side you have more abilities and cooldowns to counter any bad scenarios in Raid so if you master this class you could end up being a much better asset to the raid then a Prot Paladin or Blood DK.
Holy Priests are absolute units when it comes to 10man and 25man healing but unlike Holy Paladin / Resto Shaman / Resto Druid and Discipline Priests who has 3-4 heals on rotation, Holy Priests have 8-9 heals on rotation and yes they are all supposed to be used dependent on the situation 10 different healing spells if you count divine hymn, combine that with Guardian spirit / hymn of hope / dispell magic / mass dispell / abolish disease / fear ward / shackle undead and on and on, Holy priest have an absolute arsenal of spells to counter much more situations then any other healer class, Combine all this with the fact that Holy Priest is not a "spam heal" class that precast heals nonstop like every other healer class, Holy Priest is a "reactive" heal class that needs very fast reflexes and a split second decision on what of all those 8-9 heals to use and sometimes if it's better to use a cooldown like Guardian, Divine hymn, that takes a LOT of practise to master, I been playing Holy priest since 2012 and it's if not THE most underated class in game when it comes to PVE.
Reason behind it being also that Holy Paladin / Resto Shaman / Discipline have a simply amasing syngergy healing together in 25man raids so most good groups (even on heroic) never go for more healers then these 3. That's why the whole persception of the "Restodudu Holypriest bad, cause they never get any spots in the pro groups" mindset comes from. In reality they are perfectly fine healers and in many scenarios even better, But it's all about meta gameplay these days and how fast you can do ICC.
But Anyway I been leading and raiding ICC's for over a decade with some of the most skilled players on warmane and this is what it all comes down to. (this is not a compleate guide just a quick sum of the things I came to think of atm so I might missed smth)
The optimal setup in case of what @Esterhazy Mentioned is simply based off what utilities that is needed in ICC + Buffs and how good the classes synergy with eachother.
MT: BDK OT: PPaladin
MDPS: RPaladin, CRogue
RDPS: Bala, Hunt, SP, Lock
Healers: HPaladin, RShaman
Break it down like this.
Best raid buffs + synergy for the raid comp.
-Bloodlust / Heroism. Shaman.
-Demonic Pact. Demonology Warlock.
-20% Melee Haste. DK / Enha Shaman.
-10% Attack power. Hunter / Blood DK / Enha Shaman.
-GBOK and GBOM or Drums of the Forgotten Kings + GBOM if you have 1 Paladin.
-All totems combined - Shamans.
-3% Spell Hit - Shadow Priest.
-5% Spell Crit - Moonkin Druid / Elemental Shaman.
-1% Maximum mana per 5 second (Replenishment) / Ret Paladin / Shadow Priest (Not a must have if the healer is very good and knows their playing without it ,or and, if the raid is killing bosses very fast due to high skill + geared players but in general a must have for pugs or healers will run out of mana very fast.)
There are other Raid buffs that are also consider must have but it all depends on raid setup, if you have more Attackpower users then you gotta have 5% melee crit from Fury Warrior / Feral druid, Feral druids bleed dmg boost + Combat rogues 4% more physical dmg boost.
Knowing about how to combine the raid's utilities + buffs you can play around A LOT with compositions that would do just as good or in some cases (regarding to players skill + gear) even better then the "optimal raid class setup".
Hunters are good for MD's and also very solid DPS class that does huge dmg without the nedd of any raid buffs to boost it but it's imo only really considered a must have for icc10 because of the Tranq shot on Shambling Horrors on Lich King + easy time keeping kinetics up in the air on Blood Prince Council. (considering the reason it dosent bring any real must have raid buffs)
Resto Shaman is also amasing solo healer option even considered the best for 10man solo healing. (not based on the actual healing but the buffs / utilities comp, because Holy Paladin can even easier manage the actual healing in a 10man imo).
Blood Tanks are also considered the best solo Tanks for the same reason, it's NOT about how easy / good they can tank (even though Blood DK's have 2 built in OVERPOWERED failsafes into their talents "Will of the necropolis and spell deflection which just simply makes them the best tank in game no question about it) but because they bring such a large ammount of raid buffs / utilities that you can fit another DPS into the raid instead and compleate the raid faster / easier.
The irony in this made me smile.Quote:
Originally Posted by duuiiq
And Bane can be solo healed by any healer class with enough gear and fight knowledge. Even with the healer you claimed was garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by duuiiq
Yes it can and I have personally done it, and Imo I would much rather choose to heal as Holy priest over Discipline or Resto Druid if I'm solo healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercy
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