Stop denying ret paladins STS/DBW

First page is full of fishbro haters spamming how aweful I am, move to the 2nd page for the discussion:

Discussion:
Point:
Pugs need to either distribute loot efficiently or completely disregard efficiency.

Arguement:
The current meta pugs distribute loot is extremely unfair. If ret palas are to be denied STS/DBW then other classes should get their own set priorities.

End Result:
Pugs need to popularize efficiency.

Examples:
Death's Verdict/Choice/Whispering fanged skull priority to retri palas/unholy dks/surv hunters/assa rogues
DBW/STS to Arpen maxing classes such as: F-wars, frost dks, comb rogues, MM hunters, etc
Arpen gear should be prio'd against non-arpen users
Non-Arpen gear should be prio'd for non-arpen users
Solace to resto shamans, resto druids and priests
Spellpower/crit/haste gear and off-hands should be prioritized to DPS/Rshamans/Hpalas
Spirit gear should be prioritized for healers before dps

Deathbringer's Will is worse for the spec than every other trinket the spec uses from the raid, and even the 25 man trinket from the prior raid. If they are skipping paladins on that trinket in particular, then good on them.

Ret already gets priority on Tiny Abom. It doesn't need priority on other trinkets that are just as good for some other specs.

ARP trinkets are already thought by 4 classes, that have their kit benefitting as a whole from passive stat of trinkets - reason why they are BiS.
Ret pala has much better options and only his normal attacks are making use of ARP. Considering lack of ARP on pala gear, it is just stupid to waste such valuable item on spec that can't utilise it properly. Str/AP, haste and crit are your bread-n-butter, it directly boosts your damage due to no holy resistance available for bosses. One point of said stats will be noticeably better than ARP.
If you so desperately want said trinkets - feel free to use store function and see for yourself, that they won't benefit you as much as you think.

Whenever I see a ret turning into a taunka, I die inside a little more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

I popularized and enforced the distribution of Death's Choice to ret pala/unholy dk in TOC25 pugs on the Lordaeron server, specifically around 2019/2020 and it's carried on ever since.

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You didn't do anything.

DC/DV for Rets/UH has been a given long before you even played on lordaeron. Even before ICC was released they had prio on it despite DBW/STS not even being an option due to not being available.

Source: I actually played back then.

If you feel like DBW/STS is such a huge upgrade for ret - go ahead. You'll get memed on for a reason though.

This guy sent us a message 5 years into past about DBW and stuff, so we can split the loot fairly in 2015 or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blind

You didn't do anything.

DC/DV for Rets/UH has been a given long before you even played on lordaeron. Even before ICC was released they had prio on it despite DBW/STS not even being an option due to not being available.

Source: I actually played back then.

If you feel like DBW/STS is such a huge upgrade for ret - go ahead. You'll get memed on for a reason though.

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lol sure buddy, when i started playing until I started raid leading pugs my first 3 years on lordaeron everyone was free-rolling deaths choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

lol sure buddy, when i started playing until I started raid leading pugs my first 3 years on lordaeron everyone was free-rolling deaths choice.

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Illusion of grandeur is strong on this one.

DC/DV prio for UH/Ret has been there before I ever set foot in Lordaeron, and that was somewhere before 2014/2015.
DBW used to be top 10 DPS that needed it, excluding rets, as it's **** for them. I can count the times a ret got DBW with fingers of one hand. Naturally, these were ****ty meant to be alt/short runs where leaders didn't know any better or didn't care. So yeah, No DBW for Ret is no-brainer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

on lordaeron everyone was free-rolling deaths choice.

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Those superior Loldaeron players should've learned from those ****ty Iceclowns how to play the game.

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Originally Posted by OhieMitzen

Illusion of grandeur is strong on this one.

DC/DV prio for UH/Ret has been there before I ever set foot in Lordaeron, and that was somewhere before 2014/2015.
DBW used to be top 10 DPS that needed it, excluding rets, as it's **** for them. I can count the times a ret got DBW with fingers of one hand. Naturally, these were ****ty meant to be alt/short runs where leaders didn't know any better or didn't care. So yeah, No DBW for Ret is no-brainer.



Those superior Loldaeron players should've learned from those ****ty Iceclowns how to play the game.

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Yeah sure, maybe in guild runs, in pugs? Pugs have had the same rules since the dawn of time which is "fk you, gimme item, it's upgrade me gearscore".
I was reported by hundreds of people over the course of nearly 6 months straight while enforcing death's choice to uhdk/ret pala prio on lordaeron until it finally took off. It's not hard to believe that a YouTuber with 2k subs (sometimes higher than Lordaeron's population) and ex-heroic raiding guild leader, is able to popularize a basic concept like proper loot distribution on a relatively small server like Lordaeron. There are no "illusions of grandeur".

As for Lordaeron players learning from icecrown, it's the otherway around, lordaeron is distributing loot fairly, while the same hunter/warrior/rogue who took the death's choice in the toc goes immediately to icc or ruby sanctum and takes sts/dbw and vendors that deaths choice.

This thread is a thread on general inefficient loot distribution in pugs. That's all. It's unfair to deny ret pala's the upgrade as
1). It's against warmane rules
2). It's still an upgrade, even if it's not their #1 trinket.

and if it's popularized to shaft ret paladins on their upgrades, why is it only popularized on those 2 and not the skull trinkets?

i think its common sense really. its masterloot pugs, the rl hold the rules like loot distributions, like priorities, reservations, etc. specially when he states loot prio to certain classes on his invite ad. or before he start the run. rl can distribute dc/dv to classes other than prio classes (uh/ret) as long as he didnt set loot prio rule on his run and the rolls from the raids are fair, and he can stand by that reason without breaking ingame rules whenever a player complaint cz he play the prio class. but if the rl let caster classes have it then it'd be questionable.

so i guess if u want your ret to have sts or dbw, then join a pug which allows u to do so or make your own raid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

Yeah sure,

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This topic is a marketing scheme, I bet you own a bottled water factory and are trying to make everyone thirsty from flapping gums with pointless words.

How about you define properly and precisely criteria for items to be allowed. Some "efficiency % in slot" or something like that. ring with mp5 for mage is 65% "effective" and dbw for retri is 70% "effective", so the line is somewhere between 65 and 70% ? Or hat are you saying here? So they can put it into rules and everyone is happy. There is no dowsides, so please, paint the picture, because some vague crap like "is not meant for this spec" is obviously not good enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morvion

i think its common sense really. its masterloot pugs, the rl hold the rules like loot distributions, like priorities, reservations, etc. specially when he states loot prio to certain classes on his invite ad. or before he start the run. rl can distribute dc/dv to classes other than prio classes (uh/ret) as long as he didnt set loot prio rule on his run and the rolls from the raids are fair, and he can stand by that reason without breaking ingame rules whenever a player complaint cz he play the prio class. but if the rl let caster classes have it then it'd be questionable.

so i guess if u want your ret to have sts or dbw, then join a pug which allows u to do so or make your own raid.

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You really think that any ARP class gonna join his raid, where Ret pala is allowed to roll DBW/STS?)

And yeah, hearing his baffling about being "hero who fought for DC/DV prio to Ret/UH" is almost top tier comedy. All priorities were established long before he joined Warmane, but he needs to feel himself important

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Originally Posted by Persivaln

You really think that any ARP class gonna join his raid, where Ret pala is allowed to roll DBW/STS?)

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depends on what classes do his 2k subscribers play.

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

Yeah sure, maybe in guild runs, in pugs? Pugs have had the same rules since the dawn of time which is "fk you, gimme item, it's upgrade me gearscore".

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Common PUG thinking in any realm or server.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

I was reported by hundreds of people over the course of nearly 6 months straight while enforcing death's choice to uhdk/ret pala prio on lordaeron until it finally took off. It's not hard to believe that a ex-heroic raiding guild leader, is able to popularize a basic concept like proper loot distribution on a relatively small server like Lordaeron. There are no "illusions of grandeur".

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You can see who reported you? Since when, and where? Oh but you don't. Random PUG member saying "reported" holds no ground (99.9% of the time it's a threat/intimidation). You, as a former HC raiding guild leader, should know how to host PUG's too, and how to state raid rules before the raid starts. You know, stating the basic BoE reserves, common DC/DV prio etc. would certainly prevent from "hundreds of people" reporting you. You have popularized nothing, you only think so in your illusory bubble.
You call yourself raiding guild leader, but get massively "reported" in your PUG runs, sounds bit ironic, doesn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

As for Lordaeron players learning from icecrown, it's the otherway around, lordaeron is distributing loot fairly, while the same hunter/warrior/rogue who took the death's choice in the toc goes immediately to icc or ruby sanctum and takes sts/dbw and vendors that deaths choice.

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Any PUG anywhere without setting loot prio for DC/DV or any item is prone to go that way, whether it's Icecrown or Lordaeron. People see opportunity, they take it, and RL gets hated for making a basic "mistake" in loot distribution/loot rules.
Though, gatekeeping items because another one may or may not drop in another raid, that the person may or may not have access to, is bit stupid.
Upgrade is an upgrade, even if it's on a smaller scale. Just like DBW for rets, but I urge you to read forward before making arguments based on that line alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

This thread is a thread on general inefficient loot distribution in pugs. That's all. It's unfair to deny ret pala's the upgrade as
1). It's against warmane rules
2). It's still an upgrade, even if it's not their #1 trinket.

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PUG's are no man's land. Trying to generalize PUG rules isn't ever going to work. We have rules against ninjas, and that's all there is to it. What rules you make in any PUG doesn't really matter, as long as it follows Warmane's general rules. It leaves some creative freedom e.g. reserves, priorities, loot bans for fails and so on, even how many bosses you kill at max. Naturally you have to state the specific rules well before people get saved to raid.
This is why you ask about rules of the specific PUG before you get yourself saved. BoE/Primo reserves, item prios aren't general rules, they are made up by the PUG leader.
If you're a ret and want DBW, ask if the RL allows you to roll it as it's common to deny rets from rolling DBW. You didn't ask -> You didn't really care. The same goes for DC/DV with other classes. If you want to roll specific item, it's the best to ask RL if it's allowed, if it wasn't already stated in the loot rules.
You can always leave it up to GM's decision, but is it really worth it in terms of their time and yours? Chat is there so you can communicate, use it to your advantage before wasting others' time because you didn't bother asking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xTheLichKingx

why is it only popularized on those 2 and not the skull trinkets?

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That's the life of non-BiS 10 man trinkets that very few care for.

STS is rets best trinket but that is if its heroic. further more that trinket is prioed to every class that isn't ret. the fact you think that ret should be prioritized for this trinket shows how out of touch you are. please see a therapist for help. you need to seriously touch grass. oh, and if a ret did roll on DBW on a pug raid or guild raid i would lead i would ignore the roll. i'd also announce it in RW. and give it to the next viable character. a DBW on a ret is ****ing huge meme. the fact you think its acceptable shows how truly incompetent of a player you truly are. i said it once. to go touch grass.