Who is the ninja looter?

TLDR: Is rolling for lower ilvl gear considered ninja-looting?


Unless it has been updated elsewhere, Warmane's ninja looting policy does not explicitly address rolling for lower lvl items.
Reference: https://forum.warmane.com/showthread...=1#post2651922


With that established, I would like to present 2 similar scenarios with opposite outcomes and ask the community and/or Warmane staff who is in the wrong here.

Scenario 1
An ICC10 normal raid group kills Lord Marrowgar. Citadel Enforcer's Claymore (ilvl 251) drops and RL calls for MS roll. A single ret paladin rolls for it since others either can't use it or have other roles as MS. RL and other raid members notices the paladin already has Shadow's Edge (ilvl 264) and does not give it to said paladin. RL proceeds to call for OS roll and someone else wins it. The MS ret paladin did not roll during the OS round and left insisting that the lower ilvl weapon is an upgrade for him.

Scenario 2
An Ony25 raid concludes and Burnished Quel'Serrar drops (ilvl 245). RL calls for MS roll and one of the warrior tanks of that raid won the roll, beating several others who rolled for it as well. The tank in question already had Bonebreaker Scepter (ilvl 251) from ICC equipped. When a raid member questioned him about it, he insisted that the lower level weapon is better for him than his current weapon. The RL gave the weapon to him anyway and did not bother him/herself with whether any of the rolls during the raid were for upgrades or not, only that they were rolled according to MS/OS.


There are several similarities in both of these scenarios, namely:
1. The person who got the highest roll were rolling for their MS.
1. The person who got the highest roll were rolling for lower ilvl gear.
1. The person who got the highest roll insisted that they were upgrades.

The only difference was in scenario 1, the rollee did not receive the gear in question whereas they did in scenario 2.

So, who's the ninja here? From my understanding:
If rolling for lower lvl gear is allowed (with a few exceptions like Val'anyr), then the RL in scenario 1 ninja-ed the drop from the paladin.
If rolling for lower lvl gear is not allowed, then the warrior ninja-ed the drop from other eligible raid members.

Hope to hear some of your thoughts on this.

For Scenario 1, I would say the RL did the right thing even if it seems like he ninjaed it.

As for Scenario 2, hard to tell...if i were the raidlead i woulda just told the guy let someone else have it.

Problem is it takes lot of effort to check on everyone who rolls and if it's realy an upgrade for them or not, not to mention people unequip their gear on purpose and just put on a 232 ilvl one so they can get that item for themselves or a friend. This later thing is against the rules if im not mistaken...but whos gona check/tell?

I've been in disaster TOC25 raids where one third of the raid were from the same guild. Now what they did was, even people who were like 6k-6.5 from that guild rolled on EVERYTHING and just passed on to their lower geared friend. So Me who joined as a pug in that raid had to compete against 10 people for the trophies for example. And in this scenario the loot rules were simple MS>OS (no ms change).

Thanks you for your input, @Viiscral.

Indeed, both of these scenarios occurred in PUGs, and you and your friend have my sympathies on what transpired in the TOC raid. Rolling on behalf of someone else is indeed a bannable offense according to Warmane rules and I hope they got their just desserts.

To me, allowing MS rolls for lower lvl gear doesn't make much sense. That would be like allowing any eligible class in RDF to roll need for something that drops off normal Halls of Stone when they already have a weapon from heroic FoS/PoS/HoR. Sure, they might not even win it, but their actions reduce the chances for others to get an actual upgrade by default.