[Onyxia][Gameplay] Bring WotLK version of SOME (RNG) talents, racials and items

Hello,

I've heared TBC Onyxia is going to have WotLK version of arena maps and I actually think it's cool and better for arena/PvP quality. Some people would argue it's not good because of their nostalgia goggles or being too used to TBC arenas that are often very imbalanced and VERY RNG-dependant and therefore LESS skill-dependant. In WotLK Blizzard fixed a lot of RNG problems TBC arenas had and here comes my suggestion.

If you're already bringing WotLK version of arena maps into TBC why not go a step further and bring WotLK version of SOME talents that in TBC are very RNG and make TBC arena outcome very often randomized. What I mean here are talents like warrior's Iron Will or priest's Unbreakable Will which give them 15% chance to COMPLETELY resist stuns and/or other forms of CC. It's VERY frustrating to have your CRUCIAL stun getting resisted and losing arena cause of that and because here we play on 3.3.5 client I don't see a good reason to keep such obsolete and annoying mechanics in the game. Befor anyone says it would make classes like rogue too strong - it could actually be the other way around because their stuns would last shorter and rogues are too strong in TBC normally and such resists also negatively affect classes like paladin that are pretty weak in TBC arena.

It doesn't really affect PvE in any significant way so I don't see a GOOD reason NOT to do it.

List of talents, racials and/or items that should ALREADY be their WotLK version:

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=14...breakable-will
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=12300/iron-will
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=20573/hardiness
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=33851/primal-tenacity
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=19...oved-wing-clip - was removed in WotLK so must stay as it is
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=19184/entrapment - procs on trap use in WotLK so better leave it alone
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=31844/stoicism
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=258...hstorm-diamond
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=258...kyfire-diamond
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=12...specialization
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=13...specialization

You're confusing things. Using the Wrath arena maps is a matter of cost-benefit. The old maps would have to be recreated and players would need to download a custom patch because of it. It would be a nice chunk of work, a hassle to players, and be something we avoid forcing them to do, all for some nostalgia benefit that would only last a while. It has nothing to do with what you believe were the reasons for that choice to be made, therefore the whole basis of everything else you're suggesting doesn't exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

You're confusing things. Using the Wrath arena maps is a matter of cost-benefit. The old maps would have to be recreated and players would need to download a custom patch because of it. It would be a nice chunk of work, a hassle to players, and be something we avoid forcing them to do, all for some nostalgia benefit that would only last a while. It has nothing to do with what you believe were the reasons for that choice to be made, therefore the whole basis of everything else you're suggesting doesn't exist.

---

I don't think that's true cause I know of other server that also runs TBC on 3.3.5 client and I think they have TBC version of arena maps.

Even if that's not the case it doesn't matter anyway cause all in all there's no reason to have such archaic talents/racials/items that only make the gameplay more annoying and having their WotLK version would only be beneficial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xileyz

I don't think that's true cause I know of other server that also runs TBC on 3.3.5 client and I think they have TBC version of arena maps.

Even if that's not the case it doesn't matter anyway cause all in all there's no reason to have such archaic talents/racials/items that only make the gameplay more annoying and having their WotLK version would only be beneficial.

---

Obviously cannot name the servers here because of respect towards Warmane staff but I read this narrative a lot of times here yet, especially coming from the same group of "friends" however these people played on neither servers so not sure what this talk is even about.

As far as I am aware there were 2 servers so far that recently provided 3.3.5a client possibility for TBC alongside 2.4.3 version of the arena maps and one required a heavily customized launcher and folder.
The second one also required a custom exe and one custom .mpq patch file.

I do not believe there are more than two server currently offering this type of content, Warmane being the third without requiring any custom files so Obnoxious explanation should be correct even if you do not like to read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by verksm

Obviously cannot name the servers here because of respect towards Warmane staff but I read this narrative a lot of times here yet, especially coming from the same group of "friends" however these people played on neither servers so not sure what this talk is even about.

As far as I am aware there were 2 servers so far that recently provided 3.3.5a client possibility for TBC alongside 2.4.3 version of the arena maps and one required a heavily customized launcher and folder.
The second one also required a custom exe and one custom .mpq patch file.

I do not believe there are more than two server currently offering this type of content, Warmane being the third without requiring any custom files so Obnoxious explanation should be correct even if you do not like to read it.

---

Either way there would be no good reason to have TBC arena maps over WotLK ones just because of nostalgia. TBC arena maps have problems like random twigs or boards sticking out of the ground that can block you or weird pillars that aren't circular so LoS can be weird sometimes. All of that is fixed with WotLK arena maps.

It's exactly the same with these dumb RNG talents or orc racial that make TBC arenas a lot more about luck than how it is in WotLK and it DOESN'T have to be that way cause you can simply have WotLK version of them with 3.3.5 client.

There would be a perfectly good reason for having both things as they were in Burning Crusade: we are hosting a Burning Crusade server. People are coming to play as close to that expansion as we can provide, because that's what we're known to offer.

Again, you repeatedly assume something happened for your own reasons, when I already told you that wasn't the case. If it was a simple matter that wouldn't require additional patches there would be a good chance we would use the old arena maps too. Expect spells/talents/racials to work just like they are on the PTR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

There would be a perfectly good reason for having both things as they were in Burning Crusade: we are hosting a Burning Crusade server. People are coming to play as close to that expansion as we can provide, because that's what we're known to offer.

---

Dungeon finder is a thing on Onyxia and will be the same on TBC if I'm not mistaken and I don't get how it has anything to do with "true" either Vanilla or TBC. Just because something is supposed to be in TBC that doesn't mean it's good for the game overall. This game is very old and most people have played a lot of it so it's well understood it's not perfect in every area and can be improved upon with few (QoL) features.

Neither was not having a monthly subscription ever part of "true" World of Warcraft, but I don't see you demanding to pay one.

This ever so tired and childish pseudo-argument of "you did this, so you can do what I want too" is never ever going to cause any reaction beyond an eyeroll. That's not how this works. Trying to call messing with game mechanics "quality of life" is even worse, though, that's pure bad faith. The combat in Burning Crusade having RNG you dislike just means at most that you shouldn't play the expansion, not that it should be changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Neither was not having a monthly subscription ever part of "true" World of Warcraft, but I don't see you demanding to pay one.

This ever so tired and childish pseudo-argument of "you did this, so you can do what I want too" is never ever going to cause any reaction beyond an eyeroll. That's not how this works. Trying to call messing with game mechanics "quality of life" is even worse, though, that's pure bad faith. The combat in Burning Crusade having RNG you dislike just means at most that you shouldn't play the expansion, not that it should be changed.

---

You're misrepresenting what I said, all I'm doing is suggesting and saying why given change would in my opinion be overall benefical. Obviously whether or not such SUGGESTION is accepted is entirely up to the staff and I understand that so I'm not sure why you're acting like I'm demanding something to be done when it's not the case at all.

Things like RDF don't mess with game mechanics but it changes the gameplay significantly. I'd argue my suggestion is less invasive than something like RDF existing in Vanilla/TBC because it doesn't affect PvE at all and all it would do is make TBC arenas more balanced and less luck-based. I don't think anyone plays TBC arenas for that random stun/fear resist gimmick and there's ALMOST no way to play around that cause no is going to play around 15-20% stun resist chance when there's 80-85% chance that your stun will actually land. The essence of TBC arenas was never about these random stun/fear resists and all they are is a nuisance that only serves to annoy players therefore making PvP less fun and drive people away from it or the game entirely. Just because this mechanic was always part of Vanilla/TBC is not a good enough reason to keep it around in this day and age. I know this is an old, imperfect game but that doesn't mean private servers can't improve it with some neat features while still keeping the core spirit of the game intact.