Realm has a tank/healer problem, and it's all your fault.

Just getting straight to the point, having leveled multiple tanks, and a heal or two I feel I can speak on the matter factually and be somewhat clued in on the situation.

Here's the issues - as a leveling character, you WILL be rolling on tank/heal items together with dps who claim it's for their off-spec. Now, let's forget for a second that you either ask and/or have the greed option for offspec rolling, YOU WILL NOT play your offspec for significant amount of time, let alone, be able to build a set for it during the leveling period as you will keep outgearing most of your pieces as you go along. You want tank/heal gear, roll a tank/heal or pass on the loot.

Why is this your fault? The normalization of the situation. Rest of the group just wants to carry on and finish the dungeon without hassle. Why not? It's not them who just got shafted, they couldn't give a toss.

What should you do instead? Boot the mothertrucker who ninjad the gear, or at THE VERY LEAST do not press no, when the tank/heal initiate the kick for a very valid reason. If they needed on one, they will need on the rest.

Next, the constant ability vomiting. No, Mocking Blow is not a dpsing ability. No, you shouldn't death grip, as it saves you time running up to the mob. Your pet's taunt does not do damage.

Again, same issue and ability to resolve it. Why are we oblivious to the fact, that tank is struggling to keep a pack of mobs together? A healer is burning through mana as fast as a fat kid through gatorade? Finish the pack, have a word, repeat offence results in a kick. STOP REFUSING THE KICK OF A TOSSER WHO IS PULLING IN THE DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN THE REST OF THE GROUP.

I've got heirloom geared characters, once in decent level, I will have dungeons running as a clockwork, but regardless of how fast or efficient you are, there is always someone pressed for time, wanting to go faster, willing the pull the extra pack, sometimes even disregarding the fact, that your group has almost no AoE capabilities.

Long story short - START SUPPORTING YOUR TANKS/HEALS. If another dps takes a piece of their gear, don't sit silently and initiate the resolution, be on tanks/healers side. Initiate the kick if you have to. Be ready to carry on 4 man until you find a replacement if you have to, even if it means going slower. Don't prioritize finishing the dungeon over what's right, otherwise it might simply mean you won't see that tank/heal ever again.

Rant over.

Tanks and Healers need to stop looking at the Deserter debuff as some sort of bane of existence to be avoided at all costs.

If the group is bad, doesn't listen, refuses to address/kick the problem - just leave. They are the ones with something around zero or lower chance to get a replacement in any viable time. They will disband and requeue and wait and wait and wait again.

Save yourself the stress, use the debuff time to cool off, do some gathering or questing or mess around with an alt for a little.

If more Tanks and Healers just sucked up the debuff, that sort of people would be locked in a loop of never completing any dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Tanks and Healers need to stop looking at the Deserter debuff as some sort of bane of existence to be avoided at all costs.

If the group is bad, doesn't listen, refuses to address/kick the problem - just leave. They are the ones with something around zero or lower chance to get a replacement in any viable time. They will disband and requeue and wait and wait and wait again.

Save yourself the stress, use the debuff time to cool off, do some gathering or questing or mess around with an alt for a little.

If more Tanks and Healers just sucked up the debuff, that sort of people would be locked in a loop of never completing any dungeon.

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This just brings back around the point about people only caring about finishing the dungeon. It provides no lesson to the person in the actual wrong here, puts the tank/healer at odds with rest of the group, as they're now pissed off group is falling apart because of said tank/healer, and for all I know, probably just suck up the tank/heal going, queue up for another, finish the dungeon and learn no lessons and make the wrong conclusions.

Again, putting it on tanks/healers to just calm down, while ignorant people carry on with impunity, is normalizing something, that we as a community shouldn't.

Lower level rdf dungeons provide far more superior gear from bag of spoils, than you would get from outdoor world, on top of that, if you've made an effort to collect quests from multiple zones, the xp gain is huge, you shouldn't have the experience spoiled by being given option of either running the rest of the dungeon with someone you know will try to snag every piece of your gear, use every possible threat spell, pulling half the dungeon or taking a debuff yourself out of sheer helplesness from the rest of your group into rooting out the actual problem.

Good luck, then.
I'm sure I won't be the only one waiting for the results with some popcorn.

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Originally Posted by FrosCy

This just brings back around the point about people only caring about finishing the dungeon. It provides no lesson to the person in the actual wrong here, puts the tank/healer at odds with rest of the group, as they're now pissed off group is falling apart because of said tank/healer, and for all I know, probably just suck up the tank/heal going, queue up for another, finish the dungeon and learn no lessons and make the wrong conclusions.

Again, putting it on tanks/healers to just calm down, while ignorant people carry on with impunity, is normalizing something, that we as a community shouldn't.

Lower level rdf dungeons provide far more superior gear from bag of spoils, than you would get from outdoor world, on top of that, if you've made an effort to collect quests from multiple zones, the xp gain is huge, you shouldn't have the experience spoiled by being given option of either running the rest of the dungeon with someone you know will try to snag every piece of your gear, use every possible threat spell, pulling half the dungeon or taking a debuff yourself out of sheer helplesness from the rest of your group into rooting out the actual problem.

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There are not many rules linked to RDF, except for the ninja part and refusing to play i believe. Both which you can report to the GM´s via ingame ticket, and which get punished. By queuing up you have to accept the fact that you will be grouped with other individuals, which have their own POV and as long as they are not breaking any rules, its up to you to either accept their ways and maybe find a common way to finish it productively, or simply leave. At the end of the day, people can be voted off the dungeon based on the majority of the group making a decision. And if the majority is against a kick, then you simply gotta suck it up and accept that your POV is not the most relevant in that moment, no matter how much you think you are right with it.

The whole "tool" is based around making it easier for you to get a group together fast, it doesnt replace the social aspect of the game where you have to communicate with others. Why not find yourself a few people to do it together with on a regular basis?

Btw, i completely understand your POV, being a tank myself. But the easiest solution indeed is to either convince the group of your way/logic, or leave. And at the end of the day, they will all learn sooner or later that you have to communicate and be a decent human being, otherwise youll be stuck eventually. This is Lordaeron, not Icecrown, you cant get away with being dumb long term, at least not if your goal is to down LK HC one day.

And yeah, if someone gets mad over you leaving a dungeon because you reject the groups or any individuals way of playing it, then theyve done you a favor - thats not the kind of people you wanna play with anyways.

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Originally Posted by Santori

There are not many rules linked to RDF, except for the ninja part and refusing to play i believe. Both which you can report to the GM´s via ingame ticket, and which get punished. By queuing up you have to accept the fact that you will be grouped with other individuals, which have their own POV and as long as they are not breaking any rules, its up to you to either accept their ways and maybe find a common way to finish it productively, or simply leave. At the end of the day, people can be voted off the dungeon based on the majority of the group making a decision. And if the majority is against a kick, then you simply gotta suck it up and accept that your POV is not the most relevant in that moment, no matter how much you think you are right with it.

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Going through ticket option as you said is viable only for the ninjaing part, refusal to play, short of them stating it in group chat, you have to be recording to prove and is probably the more solvable of the issues, as rest of the group will be more aligned to get rid of such players.

The needing majority to kick, not entirely sure at the moment, but pretty sure it takes only 1 refusal (another being player in question obviously), for the kick to fail? That would mean 2 to 3 minority is only needed to be unable to kick someone.

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The whole "tool" is based around making it easier for you to get a group together fast, it doesnt replace the social aspect of the game where you have to communicate with others. Why not find yourself a few people to do it together with on a regular basis?

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The problem is keeping the level treshold between 5 people, hell even 3. I'm always trying to join a leveling guild, but even with one, it's often difficult to find full group of people in level range and will to do it.

I have some chars in conditions to play a Tank or healer
But, it is a nightmare in normal or heroic RDF. a tension every time...

The function of tank its not only got aggro mobs, but think about ways to the best dungeou execution, and protect your healer is your own priority function too and other things.. (AND THIS MAKE A GREAT PPL TANK FOR RAIDS)
But its normal, ppl high geared or no sense ppl think " im the best, i cank kill all alone... " pets with aggro active, pets with auto defense, auto target active, call a big pack mobs, get items from tanks and healers

The funcion of healers, is basicaly save yuor ***, BUT, if the tank make a good job, the work is very simple, when one healer need heal 5 targets at some time all the time, make the game bad and get a frustrated work, cansative, NO ONES pay attention to heals, **** the mana, **** the aggro because you got aggro from tank or steal your stuff for healer.

result... desmotive play in spec tank/heal ppl,

When you have 5,7k+ or more GS, u need respect ppl from 3, 4 ,5k gs, because its time to learn, its time to adjust chars for the future RAIDS
and remember the preferential loot is for class Tank and Healer, AND if this GUYS dont intersted on item, u can need it, hold for the claim items before, respect it,
I can se ppl made 10, 12, 15k DPS, it transform a game in a bad experience for others,


sorry for my poor english grammar.

I get your frustration, – I’ve been there too. But I have to agree with Obnoxious on this one.

Waiting for the community to change is noble, but unlikely. Sometimes it’s better to just take the debuff, walk away, and keep your sanity intact.

Letting bad groups fail without you sends a clearer message than arguing with people who won’t listen.

— Akazia

You are right but whatever you do peoples don't change. The actual players have lot basic knowlege due to addon, wrong guid, overgear player (so they got carried without learning) and mentallity (meta only meta). Just by doing that you erase half class (war and drood) capable of tanking. And it's the same for healers (there are still more healers than tank). You cumulate all and you obtain the "why no one want to play tank and healer".

I play all but I heavily prefer tank and heal. I have to admit players on this server made me want to smash my ball with hammer, it's 'll be less painfull.
I agree with the list: random pull, players with 6k4 gs burning all cds in dungeon to do 18k dps that made it untankable,...
I adds players with no mecanic boss knowledges or class (hello frost dk using frost presence), players who aggro and run away from tank, players with class who can bump (boomie, firemage pvp,..) who pass their time to use bump on pack adds, mage who aggro run away so you run after taunt trashes and this ***** use forst nova,...

My mofo on dungeon now is simple. You aggro, made a mistake deal with it. Most of time they die and I got insult but **** it.

have lost

How the **** I edit my previous post?.

To the OG poster you're just venting here. It's not an issue you can actually fix. A natural response to people venting is others offering solutions and trying to relate. That can be a healthy thing when validation is reciprocated, but if your response is just denying these solutions then it's just an abusive interaction.

I can Chad tank with any class that has the ability to tank, I LOOOOVE TANKING. That being said I agree with the OP on numbskulls agroing every damn thing they can to try and get the Uber dps for AoE pull which usually i will tolerate until they end up taking the aggro off of me and ive burnt up everything in my kit to try and save their dumbass or at least maintain enough aggro that it doesnt wipe out my healer. Once my shtf buttons are used and the group dies because of something that could have been avoided by a dps using their threat scrub button and didnt i will unleash hell on them in the chat grab some popcorn and watch as they try and spin it all back to my inability to tank their facepulls but by then the vote to kick has already gone out and passed or like Obnoxious stated i just fing quit and let them wait for another tank and then post in chat that they need a tank for rdf and rip them a new one again. As far as dungeon gear is concerned, unless its a shield or major upgraded weapon i could give a crap on the outcome of a need greed roll. In Heroic dungeons and Raids however this is a different story and if a dps is rolling for upgrades to my tanking kit you can bet your farm im going to be pissed and make a ticket for it all while making a note to never play with them again in any setting.

OG WotLK back in 2007 also had a healer and tank shortage and Blizzard made up for it by networking the servers together into groups. The resulting sheer volume of people online made up for the deficit and lowered queue times. This obviously isn't a possibility here at least not to the same degree. And as far as the group members that can't behave, as someone who plays almost exclusively healer and tank roles and has done so for 20 years the only advice I can really give is to just warn them once in chat and then let those ******s die over and over if they don't listen. Don't heal them. Don't taunt their aggro off them. And then kick them out of the group or just leave, wait off the debuff and then rejoin. Don't tolerate any ******s rolling on "off spec" gear. The only reason this continues is because no one is doing anything about it. DPStards are a dime a dozen. They'll either learn or they won't. Either way it won't be your problem