Is Warmane OK with harassment? (Camping)?

Harassment: Generally, harassment is understood as behavior that demeans, humiliates, or intimidates a person, and it is characterized by its unlikelihood in terms of social and moral reasonableness. It is unwanted, uninvited, and unwelcome conduct that causes nuisance, alarm, or substantial emotional distress without any legitimate purpose. While isolated incidents or petty slights are typically not considered illegal, harassment is distinguished by its continuity or repetitiveness and its ability to cause distressing, alarming, or threatening effects.

So with this at the forefront...I'm just asking a question (please don't bite my head off)

Is this acceptable?

As I understand it, it is not by the TOS....YET...There are players who literally camp low level areas (Borean Tundra, Blasted Lands, Un'Goro Crator) where camping takes place.

Camping - by any other definition is literally harassment...Is this allowed? Can we do this?

Faction loyalty is no crime. As a sworn warrior of the Horde, it is my sacred duty to strike down every Alliance wretch that dares wander within my sight.

Camping isn't harassment in a PvP server, it's part of what you accept might happen when you choose to play in one. Bringing up a word definition wouldn't get people to stop killing you on Call of Duty or any similar game, would it? It only might be considered harassment here if it becomes literally targeted - and that means one person or group making a point to target you specifically and ignoring others, across different areas, even when you are on different characters, and over a consistently long period of time.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Camping isn't harassment in a PvP server, it's part of what you accept might happen when you choose to play in one. Bringing up a word definition wouldn't get people to stop killing you on Call of Duty or any similar game, would it? It only might be considered harassment here if it becomes literally targeted - and that means one person or group making a point to target you specifically and ignoring others, across different areas, even when you are on different characters, and over a consistently long period of time.

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That is a really long winded way of just saying "Yes."

Also, comparing Call of Duty to World of Warcraft is odd.

Given that World of Warcraft has "Battle pets" and "herb gathering" while Call of Duty has..."kill the enemy team" and "kill all other players who are the enemy team"

You don't find fishing or mining or skinning or herb gathering in Call of Duty. There is no General telling you "Hey, go to this zone, find 5 dead bodies and administer Holy water to bless their corpse."

As far as I'm concerned Call of Duty is a completely different game that allows for only 1 thing; killing the other players.

World of Warcraft has other things you can do; Fishing, that doesn't involve any other players beyond "They are players on the server." 2 Alliance players cannot kill each other by fishing. 2 Horde players can't kill each other while herbing.

Call of Duty; you can kill other players including your own team mates.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

That is a really long winded way of just saying "Yes."

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No, it's a long way to say you calling something harassment doesn't make it so.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

Also, comparing Call of Duty to World of Warcraft is odd.

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Both are PvP where getting killed by others is expected when you join them, and complaining that getting killed by others as expected is harassment wouldn't be taken seriously. I didn't think that needed clarification, but I guess here we are.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

No, it's a long way to say you calling something harassment doesn't make it so.


Both are PvP where getting killed by others is expected when you join them, and complaining that getting killed by others as expected is harassment wouldn't be taken seriously. I didn't think that needed clarification, but I guess here we are.

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1. There were no complaints. I was asking a question, whether you take it seriously or not is entirely in your hands.

2. The expectation of playing a game is to...y'know...play the game.

Normal people would consider "playing the game" as actually doing the content like: quests, dungeons, battlegrounds, talking to guildies, doing seasonal events, achievements, etc etc...Things that are "fun"

Example:
>Talking to NPC
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Respawn
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Respawn
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Repeat x5 or more times

While few (you maybe?) would consider the above example To be "playing the game, therefore; fun" Again, weird, but if that's how you "enjoy" playing games, I think MOST wouldn't consider that playing the game and would just log off. IDK, maybe you're a hardcore Hell Let Loose player and dying is your thing. But as I said, I don't think most people consider that "playing the game."

3. I specified what criteria would be "harassment" in the context of the game. If you want to simplify and dismiss it (or laugh at it) OK.

4. Your rationale is a justification for exploiting (cheating) - just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean its RIGHT to do something. But as you are a moderator, I'll take your word here to indicate that cheating is acceptable (weird, but ok...). I mean...We CAN roll need on every loot piece in a dungeon. Its expected, by your logic here. If the game didn't want us to roll need then it wouldn't allow us to roll need. Rolling need doesn't stop other players from rolling need, so in more ways than one its more fair than camping low level players. I'd say if you're morally obligated to kill low level players then you are morally obligated to roll need on everything as well. Or take everything if you have Master Looter set.

5. All I was asking for was clarification. So thank you for that.

You got the answer. Camping isn't harassment. PvP is part of the game. What's funny now is Blizzard actually makes players accept an agreement twice when making a character on a PvP realm explaining this. And let me tell you with the slow leveling process there (especially on Vanilla) you will have your fair share of deaths from PvP.

WoW has always been like this. It's interesting that players come here on a 20 year old game to Warmane with boosted exp rates where you can skip multiple zones avoiding contested areas entirely and even bring up this subject. Like did players here just start playing this game today? If you're really getting repeatedly camped that bad you can just unstuck from the website and go to another zone. My experience on Warmane is I might die five times max in the whole leveling process. I've leveled toons without dying at all. Very very mild compared to the retail version of this game.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

>Talking to NPC
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Respawn
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Respawn
>Die to an impossible to kill foe
>Repeat x5 or more times

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Of course you're going to get killed all over again if you respawn in the same spot. Instead, respawn behind some structure or a tree so you can hide, then play sneaky and stay unnoticed. What you're describing is just a skill issue. You walk into contested areas like you own them, then complain when someone shows you who's really in charge.

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Originally Posted by devyni9

Of course you're going to get killed all over again if you respawn in the same spot. Instead, respawn behind some structure or a tree so you can hide, then play sneaky and stay unnoticed. What you're describing is just a skill issue. You walk into contested areas like you own them, then complain when someone shows you who's really in charge.

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Having an addon that tracks other players and their abilities is a "skill issue" and to counter this you just need to "play sneaky and stay unnoticed."

I see you don't even play WoW.

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Originally Posted by jmsvanbuskirk

You got the answer. Camping isn't harassment. PvP is part of the game. What's funny now is Blizzard actually makes players accept an agreement twice when making a character on a PvP realm explaining this. And let me tell you with the slow leveling process there (especially on Vanilla) you will have your fair share of deaths from PvP.

WoW has always been like this. It's interesting that players come here on a 20 year old game to Warmane with boosted exp rates where you can skip multiple zones avoiding contested areas entirely and even bring up this subject. Like did players here just start playing this game today? If you're really getting repeatedly camped that bad you can just unstuck from the website and go to another zone. My experience on Warmane is I might die five times max in the whole leveling process. I've leveled toons without dying at all. Very very mild compared to the retail version of this game.

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I think comparing Warmane to Retail is a faulty premise.

Warmane has several differences to Blizzard's WoW and don't have the ethical demands that Blizzard has to follow. Old school Blizzard would send a GM to investigate a report. Warmane wants a youtube video/screenshot. Blizzard can read through the logs with a time stamp. Warmane wants a youtube video/screenshot.

So while it may seem "obvious" to some players that camping is allowed, it should be understandable that others may want more clarity on "Where is the line drawn?"

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

So while it may seem "obvious" to some players that camping is allowed, it should be understandable that others may want more clarity on "Where is the line drawn?"

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There is no line:

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Originally Posted by Palutena

This does not include playing according to game mechanics and game design like corpse camping in PvP enabled zones, which is not punishable.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

Having an addon that tracks other players and their abilities is a "skill issue" and to counter this you just need to "play sneaky and stay unnoticed."

I see you don't even play WoW.

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Addons cannot show the exact location of enemy players on the map or in the world, since the API does not provide that information. If that's the case, then please tell me which addon does that ;)

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

Harassment: Generally, harassment is understood as behavior that demeans, humiliates, or intimidates a person, and it is characterized by its unlikelihood in terms of social and moral reasonableness. It is unwanted, uninvited, and unwelcome conduct that causes nuisance, alarm, or substantial emotional distress without any legitimate purpose. While isolated incidents or petty slights are typically not considered illegal, harassment is distinguished by its continuity or repetitiveness and its ability to cause distressing, alarming, or threatening effects.

So with this at the forefront...I'm just asking a question (please don't bite my head off)

Is this acceptable?

As I understand it, it is not by the TOS....YET...There are players who literally camp low level areas (Borean Tundra, Blasted Lands, Un'Goro Crator) where camping takes place.

Camping - by any other definition is literally harassment...Is this allowed? Can we do this?

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Are you telling me, that you are having an emotional distress from me killing you with my 80? Phhaahahahah.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

I think comparing Warmane to Retail is a faulty premise.

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I didn't. I pointed out that a player who has engaged with the game the way it was created at all should have no difficulty playing a toon on Warmane. And Warmane does emulate the way the game was created.

So really this discussion is like when we were kids and we missed the platform playing Mario so we threw the controller at the screen (we had durable televisions back then). Except you got so angry you decided to call Nintendo customer service and cried demanding they remove that platform from the game. Just jokes, but really PvP camping is just part of WoW on retail or Warmane and it won't change.

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Originally Posted by JackOneil

2. The expectation of playing a game is to...y'know...play the game.

Normal people would consider "playing the game" as actually doing the content like: quests, dungeons, battlegrounds, talking to guildies, doing seasonal events, achievements, etc etc...Things that are "fun"

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Forcing people to play the game in a specific way is one of the key reasons why modern retail wow is less popular than the game was in the past, where people could choose to play the game the way they wanted. That said, no, we do not support harassment. But we're also not here to hold your hand because you're being sensitive over a part of the game that is well-known and established to be how it plays out. Our pvp realms are, naturally, pvp realms, and choosing to play on them also means you consent to the rules of pvp that is involved in the game. Including corpse camping. So you can either get your friends and/or guild together (you know, part of this community-based game that modern multiplayer games fail to capture), choose to find your own way of avoiding the encounters, or play on a realm that doesn't facilitate those same rules of pvp. That is how the game is, how it has always been on here, and always will be. Regardless of what anyone thinks or tries to suggest is some sort of inappropriate behavior.