Most active players don't want a nerf in SWP.

It's well known that we've been through all phases of TBC with very easy bosses and popping balloons. It's healthy for dedicated players to have the feeling of progression in a raid for a little longer, so they should extend the current state of SWP until at least the end of October.

Please extend the time until the nerf by at least 1 month, this will give enough time for those who are having fun in SWP to progress and at the same time for those who want to play more casually or on easy mode to prepare.

As someone who has not done SWP, I don't want it to be nerfed. If I ever do it, I want to be able to get the same experience that people can have today. It's the final raid, supposed to show the pinnacle of skill, if it becomes a roll-over like BT and other raids were, is there a point to raiding? Raiding shouldn't be about loot, loot is a by-product to help accentuate skill. Might as well make a vendor that sells SWP loot at the start of the raid and the achievement too.

They just told you guys in the other thread they didn't tune anything pre-nerf except for the boss health. You're already playing the same easy mode you have been this whole expansion. And yet only two guilds have cleared it.

My observation is that there isn't a large player base of hardcore players here probably because it has been post-nerf. Many of those players and guilds left already if they even joined at all. The point of this TBC run was just to experience the content. The upcoming nerfs to probably the boss health will just allow more players to experience it in what might be the final couple months before Wrath.

I sense your premise is false.

Elites who spend ridiculous amount of time and preparation to race or clear content ASAP - they could not care less about others who are not within touching distance of their level. If you didn't even practice PTR, then who are you to them. You may as well be invisible or just a component of the economy. Get nerfed or don't get nerfed - it doesn't matter to them. They often roam servers, sometimes even smaller servers, just for a strong challenge from equivalent players.

Strong groups who can get 4/6 pre-nerf also know that realistically it is entirely possible they could never maintain the rate of progression, extended raids, extra raid days, burning consumes and natural dropouts to clear SWP before WoTLK releases.

Casual and semi-casual existing groups who have cleared all content to date and also want to clear the final content phase of TBC. They know this is literally impossible without nerfs.

New or potential players who enjoy raiding - whether serious or casual - who never got to see any or all of TBC, but willing to put the work in for the final mysterious phase to get geared and into groups with a strong chance to see as much raiding content as possible before WotLK hits. Without access to shared accounts or purchasing geared accounts AND getting into the elite groups, they have again almost zero chance pre-nerf to clear.

Meanwhile, without question, nerfs encourage the players who would realistically never have cleared or even seen some of the hardest original WoW content to keep playing or start raiding and plan their game through into the new expansion accordingly. It is also still not as if HP nerfs will remove mechanics. Regardless, it will still be a serious step up from all previous TBC raiding.

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Originally Posted by sandelf

I sense your premise is false.

Elites who spend ridiculous amount of time and preparation to race or clear content ASAP - they could not care less about others who are not within touching distance of their level. If you didn't even practice PTR, then who are you to them. You may as well be invisible or just a component of the economy. Get nerfed or don't get nerfed - it doesn't matter to them. They often roam servers, sometimes even smaller servers, just for a strong challenge from equivalent players.

Strong groups who can get 4/6 pre-nerf also know that realistically it is entirely possible they could never maintain the rate of progression, extended raids, extra raid days, burning consumes and natural dropouts to clear SWP before WoTLK releases.

Casual and semi-casual existing groups who have cleared all content to date and also want to clear the final content phase of TBC. They know this is literally impossible without nerfs.

New or potential players who enjoy raiding - whether serious or casual - who never got to see any or all of TBC, but willing to put the work in for the final mysterious phase to get geared and into groups with a strong chance to see as much raiding content as possible before WotLK hits. Without access to shared accounts or purchasing geared accounts AND getting into the elite groups, they have again almost zero chance pre-nerf to clear.

Meanwhile, without question, nerfs encourage the players who would realistically never have cleared or even seen some of the hardest original WoW content to keep playing or start raiding and plan their game through into the new expansion accordingly. It is also still not as if HP nerfs will remove mechanics. Regardless, it will still be a serious step up from all previous TBC raiding.

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If people who want to raid don't have the consumables or time to do it, it's because they don't have to raid, it's as simple as that. I understand that there are people who want to do it more casually or easily, which is why I proposed giving at least one more month to the raid as it is. After all, we've made it all this way in TBC in an easy and even boring way. A final challenge wouldn't be bad at all, considering there's so little time left and the precious consumables will no longer be useful in WotLK.

It's perhaps the only chance left to do something a little more fun than raidlogging on TBC and it would be great to take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by panicghost

If people who want to raid don't have the consumables or time to do it, it's because they don't have to raid, it's as simple as that. I understand that there are people who want to do it more casually or easily, which is why I proposed giving at least one more month to the raid as it is. After all, we've made it all this way in TBC in an easy and even boring way. A final challenge wouldn't be bad at all, considering there's so little time left and the precious consumables will no longer be useful in WotLK.

It's perhaps the only chance left to do something a little more fun than raidlogging on TBC and it would be great to take advantage of it.

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This server is a community project

Take a step back, and look how many guilds killed KJ yet
Not all players have time and ressources to be part of a hardcore adventure (I did back the days, never will be able to do again)

Still its healthy for the server as a whole to have more people to experiment the content

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Originally Posted by denkqh

This server is a community project

Take a step back, and look how many guilds killed KJ yet
Not all players have time and ressources to be part of a hardcore adventure (I did back the days, never will be able to do again)

Still its healthy for the server as a whole to have more people to experiment the content

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This is it exactly.

Not many have killed KJ yet because a lot of **** is bugged AF.
Brutallus is a bit harder than it should because of some minor things, not because of pre/post nerf HP difference.
Felmyst is way harder than it should because some abilities overlap and just kill 10 ppl without anything you can do about it. Not becasue of Pre-nerf HP pool.
Gauntlet is broken (did they fix that yet?).

Gauntlet seemed fine. Brutallus is a lot easier because he doesn't hit as hard on tanks as pre-nerf, tank deaths usually being the primary reason for wiping there. Felmyst must be a new bug? It has been reported. Haven't seen that happen yet personally on any attempt.

First time raider ever, this server is my first wow experience, my guild and I killed m'uru very painfully yesterday but It was the best feeling wow provided me, I hope most raiders share that sentiment with me.
This whole expansion has been pretty forgiving and having the last raid of the expansion putting myself and others guildies to the test and under pressure to do better is a very nice change of pace.

If people want to raid casually there is all the previous raids that are/were accessible. I get wanting to clear all available content but that (SHOULD) comes with some effort especially for the last bosses we're gonna see !
I think giving access to content for a broader spectrum of players is better, IE giving access to a hard raid to whom seeks the challenge since we already have a huge range of easy raids
Now I'm not agaisn't "nerfs" perse I think twins are insuferable for example but :

SWP launched on the 20th, I think it's insane to nerf it so early when we only have had so little time to LEARN and ADAPT, only very prepared guilds should be full clearing in the first 5 weeks I don't think it's shocking.

Give us time to learn and try things and STRUGGLE to beat this raid ! The island just got unlocked and we're already nerfing ?

Please at least delay it.

That's the thing is you struggled painfully on Muru and yet that's already a nerfed version of Muru. So it's pretty subjective.

The first release of Muru was practically unkillable. They released that version in Classic initially. That's the one they nerfed in retail.

This Muru has decreased health and add health. Doesn't interrupt. The adds hit for less on tanks and tanks have a lot more avoidance. It's partial Wrath post-nerf Muru. But there is struggle as you said on an already nerfed boss. The player base just isn't at that level.

That's my point, the struggle is fun because progression is the most fun part of raiding.

I don't argue that this version is already nerfed, I'm scared they'll nerf the raid even more to a point where it'll be too easy.

I'm unsure we can properly assess if guilds are up to the task after 3 IDs

Im in braindead guild where maybe 5 ppl have played BT/Sunwell before and each time we reach new boss 10 ppl show up without having done any reading on tactics hoping raid leader will explain. After months of Black Temple, still each week on Bloodboil people die because they dont understand what threat reset means. Still each week on Teron some constructs reach the group and almost wipe us. Still on Mother some people run trough tanks after teleport.
On Kalecgos every week people die because they start blasting before tank arrived through portal. We still killed it easy and we are in top 25 of fastest kill actually. Some people run in front of Brutallus when they get burn debuff because they panic and have no brain and they die. Only one of our healers is full bis so ofcourse we're still stuck on Brutallus but we got him to 5% a few times. Tactics on Brutallus are easier than some Karazhan bosses just saying. So yeah if you're stuck on Brutallus like me and think SWP is too hard .... you must be pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by PsyCow8

First time raider ever, this server is my first wow experience, my guild and I killed m'uru very painfully yesterday but It was the best feeling wow provided me, I hope most raiders share that sentiment with me.
This whole expansion has been pretty forgiving and having the last raid of the expansion putting myself and others guildies to the test and under pressure to do better is a very nice change of pace.

If people want to raid casually there is all the previous raids that are/were accessible. I get wanting to clear all available content but that (SHOULD) comes with some effort especially for the last bosses we're gonna see !
I think giving access to content for a broader spectrum of players is better, IE giving access to a hard raid to whom seeks the challenge since we already have a huge range of easy raids
Now I'm not agaisn't "nerfs" perse I think twins are insuferable for example but :

SWP launched on the 20th, I think it's insane to nerf it so early when we only have had so little time to LEARN and ADAPT, only very prepared guilds should be full clearing in the first 5 weeks I don't think it's shocking.

Give us time to learn and try things and STRUGGLE to beat this raid ! The island just got unlocked and we're already nerfing ?

Please at least delay it.

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I completely agree with what this user mentions. First of all, it's more satisfying to successfully take on a slightly more difficult boss; it gives a sense of progress compared to beating up dummies like in previous raids. I'm not against the nerf, but I'd give the instance more time to make it a little more fun after beating up insignificant, easy bosses throughout TBC.

Nerfs will allow more guilds to access this sense of progression b

Now is good time before the raid becomes obsolete (Wrath of the Fallen Paladin)