So we need to talk about 40-man Battlegrounds and the state they’re in

So we need to talk about 40-man Battlegrounds and the state they’re in right now. At this point it’s legit insane.
We’ve got a bunch of ****ing nerds queuing with 20-man premades, constantly using the AV enabler addon. It’s always Horde premades. They log into their Alliance alts and run hunters with Aspect of the Cheetah so the entire team gets dazed the second we get hit by anything. They also hop on their Alliance characters to cap their own flags so they can farm us, or in IoC they pull the boss outside when we start pushing so we all get one-shotted.
And the worst of it all ,if they see that the Alliance has formed a premade, they immediately dodge the queue like a bunch of losers.
This has to be stopped. This needs to be bannable. Can Warmane finally do something about this? It’s getting ridiculous.
I already know the reply will be “just do the same then?” but do you realize how insane that is? The random Battleground queue has become completely unplayable because of this ****.
They also log their alts and if you stay in the BG and AFK, they instantly report you from their Alliance toons so you get kicked super fast.
This is just insane.

To finally fix this mess, here are the changes that actually need to happen:
Make it explicitly bannable to use Alliance alts to cap flags, pull bosses outside in IoC, or deliberately grief your own faction’s random team. Logging alts mid-BG to sabotage should result in bans.
Have GMs occasionally spectate or review 40-man BGs during peak hours. The current “just do the same” attitude is not acceptable anymore.

Random 40-man Battlegrounds used to be fun. Right now they’re a toxic premade playground. Warmane needs to take this seriously before even more people stop queuing altogether.

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Originally Posted by highbreed

Make it explicitly bannable to use Alliance alts to cap flags, pull bosses outside in IoC, or deliberately grief your own faction’s random team. Logging alts mid-BG to sabotage should result in bans.

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It's not specifically spelled in the rules, but I am pretty sure that cross-faction collusion is bannable.

All of those things can occur naturally with no outside intervention. When 40 people arrive at the Horde fortress in IoC, do you really think the Horde needs a spy to cap the flag? Monkey see shiny clickable object, monkey clicks object.

Ofc these things can occur naturally , which is why detecting it is insanely hard there should be more GM's playing and watching what's going on , there's never a GM doing anything apart from ticket work

i think bgs need to have a max queue of 5 people its not meant to be competitve in any way (imo)

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Originally Posted by highbreed

So we need to talk about 40-man Battlegrounds and the state they’re in right now. At this point it’s legit insane.
We’ve got a bunch of ****ing nerds queuing with 20-man premades, constantly using the AV enabler addon. It’s always Horde premades. They log into their Alliance alts and run hunters with Aspect of the Cheetah so the entire team gets dazed the second we get hit by anything. They also hop on their Alliance characters to cap their own flags so they can farm us, or in IoC they pull the boss outside when we start pushing so we all get one-shotted.
And the worst of it all ,if they see that the Alliance has formed a premade, they immediately dodge the queue like a bunch of losers.
This has to be stopped. This needs to be bannable. Can Warmane finally do something about this? It’s getting ridiculous.
I already know the reply will be “just do the same then?” but do you realize how insane that is? The random Battleground queue has become completely unplayable because of this ****.
They also log their alts and if you stay in the BG and AFK, they instantly report you from their Alliance toons so you get kicked super fast.
This is just insane.

To finally fix this mess, here are the changes that actually need to happen:
Make it explicitly bannable to use Alliance alts to cap flags, pull bosses outside in IoC, or deliberately grief your own faction’s random team. Logging alts mid-BG to sabotage should result in bans.
Have GMs occasionally spectate or review 40-man BGs during peak hours. The current “just do the same” attitude is not acceptable anymore.

Random 40-man Battlegrounds used to be fun. Right now they’re a toxic premade playground. Warmane needs to take this seriously before even more people stop queuing altogether.

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sounds like paranoid conspiracies.

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Originally Posted by hybrider

i think bgs need to have a max queue of 5 people its not meant to be competitve in any way (imo)

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lol what

This topic comes up here often. The forum is full of players complaining about these premade groups that, let’s be honest, exploit the system for their own profit and for some reason, it’s tolerated on Warmane.

The best battlegrounds are the balanced ones, where the fight is actually fun. The current state of 40-man BGs is a complete disaster. That’s why most players leave immediately after checking the scoreboard and seeing the same group that shows up every day just wasting their time in BGs.

Solutions do exist several have been suggested here but they’re always rejected or ignored on the grounds that they’re not “Blizzlike,” even though many other non-Blizzlike features are already implemented.

The least invasive solutions:

After leaving a BG and once the deserter debuff expires, the game should not place the player into a BG they have already left (this would prevent players from being repeatedly put into the same BG they already abandoned).

or

A “Spiritual Immunity” buff for graveyards in 40-man BGs.
(This would prevent graveyard farming. After resurrecting, players have no buffs, respawn in waves, and must face a fully buffed, prepared group. This buff would provide time for the whole group to resurrect and possibly re-buff.)

I know that, like every previous suggestion, this will probably be rejected. It makes me wonder why is it such a problem to meet the community’s requests and make battlegrounds balanced and enjoyable?

This weekend I wanted to play a few BGs, but once again I kept getting queued only into 40-man BGs against a well-known premade group. While I was struggling to queue up (I had time while waiting for the deserter debuff to expire), I started thinking about how to prevent something that bothers almost all players here (except for the 30–40 who exploit it), and it wouldn’t require almost any visible changes to the game.

Here’s an example:

A player queues for a random BG. If they get into one of the 40-man BGs (AV, IoC), they either finish the BG or leave and get a deserter debuff. If such a player then queues for another random BG, the game would automatically exclude them from 40-man BGs until the following day (similar to how the “daily BG” for 25 arena points resets once per day).

At the same time, if the player still wanted to play 40-man BGs, they would still have the option to queue for them specifically or via Call to Arms.

Implementing such a system would solve the most fundamental issue players currently have with BGs, and it would practically not interfere with the BG flow or the game itself.

It would be even better if players could enable or disable this option in their web profile, similar to how transmog can be toggled there. I would even welcome the option to enable it for the entire account (meaning that if I complete or leave such a BG on one character, the “ban” from 40-man BGs would apply to all characters on that account).

I'm actually very curious about what the reality of the situation is. Aside from people's experiences from playing the game, surely the server owners have a sense of how imbalanced the PvP situation is by looking at the BG win/lose ratios. I cannot be 100% sure but I think alliance has a higher win ratio on average but the ratio skews depending on when - night time seems to favor horde a bit and there's a large premade for AV/IOC on horde side but at other times, there are a number of small alliance premades as well. I have also seen people offer a ton of explanations for this imbalance and they are just so convinced by it that I find ludicrous. Human behaviors change and on different servers, you see different patterns. Iirc, on classic wow, horde pvp population dominated even though alliance has Every Man for Himself. At the end of the day, we need to have some good analyses of the problem before we even give solutions.

Additionally, we have to recognize that PvP will never be fully balanced because humans can and do react differently to different policies. However, that does not mean that we just leave it up to people. Surely, there are things to reduce imbalance if it exists. We can always do small trials to see how people react - they don't have to be permanent changes.

That’s why we propose changes that don’t fundamentally alter the game.

But admit it, it’s not normal when someone comes home from work, has 2–3 hours to spend on the PC, and just wants to relax and have fun. They queue for BG, and what are they in for?

AV – 40 minutes of HK farming, next BG IOC – 30 minutes of HK farming, next BG AV – leave, 15-minute deserter debuff, next BG IOC – 30 minutes of HK farming, next BG again some 40-man BG, or if they’re lucky, maybe a 10–15 man one.

Two hours pass, and that player has “enjoyed” the game as a training dummy in some 40-man BG. How long do you think this will keep people entertained? Just queue for BG on the opposite faction and watch the chat… insults, complaints.

Players don’t want anything more than a bit of game balance.

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Originally Posted by Vajcovod

it’s not normal when someone comes home from work, has 2–3 hours to spend on the PC, and just wants to relax and have fun. They queue for BG, and what are they in for?

AV – 40 minutes of HK farming, next BG IOC – 30 minutes of HK farming, next BG AV – leave, 15-minute deserter debuff, next BG IOC – 30 minutes of HK farming, next BG again some 40-man BG, or if they’re lucky, maybe a 10–15 man one.

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In those 2-3 hours he can investigate the list of battlegrounds when he queues and see that there are options besides "Random Battleground".

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Originally Posted by Shred

In those 2-3 hours he can investigate the list of battlegrounds when he queues and see that there are options besides "Random Battleground".

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Really? And which battlegrounds, besides “Random” and “Call to Arms” (not always available), offer a daily bonus honor for a win along with 25 arena points?

The biggest motivation for players to queue for battlegrounds is the bonus honor for a win…

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Originally Posted by Vajcovod

Really? And which battlegrounds, besides “Random” and “Call to Arms” (not always available), offer a daily bonus honor for a win along with 25 arena points?

The biggest motivation for players to queue for battlegrounds is the bonus honor for a win…

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imo battlegrounds would be much better without tourists.