[Guide] PVE Assassination rogue

I used to use slow daggers + 51/13/7 talents to solve my energy/Envenom uptime problems. -> it got me to 90+% envenom uptime + more mutilates + more 4-5cp envenoms. Might be something to look into (I am inactive for a while now).

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Combat rogue with slow fist/axe/sword you mean? Then yeah.

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Yep, ment slow MH sword axe mace fist ^^

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

Poison AP scaling is fine. I feel like the Vile Poison talent gets broken randomly somehow, as it reduces poison dmg instead of increasing it. During that hour when the damn poison was doing less damage than on combat spec(same gear). I went slowly trough talent by talent to check which one might be breaking Vile Poisons and found nothing. So yeah it's suuuuper random tho. Happend to me on a Halion fight and 1 hour outa 4-5 when I was checking all assa talents and abilities.

Tl;dr Vile Poison on normal PvE Assassination spec might actually occasionally reduce poison damage by 7/14/20% instead of increasing it xD.

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i dont know wether relogging before every boss would solve it? :D

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Originally Posted by jendah

I used to use slow daggers + 51/13/7 talents to solve my energy/Envenom uptime problems. -> it got me to 90+% envenom uptime + more mutilates + more 4-5cp envenoms. Might be something to look into (I am inactive for a while now).

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Energy and the uptime of envenom is not the actual problem, we have been discussing a potential bug on talents, maybe PPM.

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Originally Posted by jespe

i dont know wether relogging before every boss would solve it? :D

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But then we would be relogging the entire raid, since it would be a bug that comes and goes, what we know is there is a problem and that we need to fix it

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Originally Posted by jendah

I used to use slow daggers + 51/13/7 talents to solve my energy/Envenom uptime problems. -> it got me to 90+% envenom uptime + more mutilates + more 4-5cp envenoms. Might be something to look into (I am inactive for a while now).

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Double slow daggers is nerfing your energy gain and DPS. As I've said before Deadly Poison has flat % chance to proc. It's not weapon speed based like Instant. And before you say the dagger dps is higher than the 1.4 one. It's still a no. It's in offhand the dmg difference is suuuper small.

15/13/7 talents're just eeeh. The 20% mutilate dmg is meh. The 10% melee haste outweighs the mutilate damage.
You either go this: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#f0ec0exoiboIuVo0xV0xcZb when you gear is gud
Or you go this: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#f0ec0exoiboIuVo0xV0xZx when your gear is meh.


Well since I don't play assa rogue in raids I can't say much more. The random instant poison low dmg is just idk.

But anyway assa rogge can still do gud dps. I mean after all dis guy pulled 14k in voa kek..

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Originally Posted by robycucu

http://imgur.com/TzmGjaI

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Just did some testing here.
http://i.imgur.com/Afe81so.jpg with HFB on
http://i.imgur.com/mTj9Mtt.jpg These two were only 3 or 4 seconds wo HFB, which is not the point, just want to show the Instant poison.
http://i.imgur.com/3NLTl3d.jpg

The poison is working, the damage seems unstable, having a lot of ups and downs.

if you want to accurately test poison damage you might want to remove buffs that proc AD or just unequip trinkets/rings/cloak/remove berserk etc.

i did test w a clean set basically, but the reason i've put this on is to explain that since i know my set and is a full assassin set, there were a lot of unstable damage during the envenom buff, even with the trink proc etc. i'll do it again with more clean itens and post it.

There we go boys'n girls. Doing almost as much dmg with Instant Poison as assa rogue.

http://shrani.si/f/19/hS/nCtbJj2/test1.png
http://shrani.si/f/1a/UJ/4rg1FeMb/test2.png
http://shrani.si/f/3F/83/4gGM3lw7/test3.png

Here's the bug report btw. https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/35824

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

There we go boys'n girls. Doing almost as much dmg with Instant Poison as assa rogue.

http://shrani.si/f/19/hS/nCtbJj2/test1.png
http://shrani.si/f/1a/UJ/4rg1FeMb/test2.png
http://shrani.si/f/3F/83/4gGM3lw7/test3.png

Here's the bug report btw. https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/35824

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What's the name of that UI, with a black trasparency, on your character's inspection and talents label?

Elvui + Elvui_Bunny addon

That's why i leaved warmane, waiting almost 5 years for a fix on assassin rogues.

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Originally Posted by Fluffybully

I'll explain it here

Firstly Envenom.

A combat rogue with 2.6 MH weapon and 4/5 Improved Poisons has a constant chance of 52% to apply Instant Poison IX and 46% on OH. Which gives an average of 49% chance to apply the Instant Poison.

Now assa rogue with 1.8 MH dagger and 5/5 Improved Poisons has a constant chance of 38,5% to apply Instant Poison IX and 50% on OH. That's an average of 44,25% to apply Instant Poison. Slower dagger higher PPM with Instant poison.

Moving onto Envenom buff. Our 1.8 dagger with 5/5 Improved Poisons nao has a chance of 67,3% to apply Instant Poison and 65% on OH, as long as ENVENOM BUFF IS ACTIVE.

^Envenom buff up-time is your problem people. And the problem is cause you're going 4-5 CP Envenoms. Wasting a lot of time waiting for energy to get another Mutilate in while Envenom is down. The best is 3-4CP Envenoms.

I for example on my rogue in a 25 man raid with more or less all the buffs I need, I've got Envenom up-time of 90%(+-5%). Most of the rogues I've seen got around 40-50%. See the problem?

First let's take the 90% up-time into account.
At 90% up-time I'll have an average chance of 64.5% to apply Instant Poison from my 1.8 MH dagger and 63% from OH.

Now we go for the usual 40% that I see.
At 40% up-time that rogue'll have an average chance of 50% to apply Instant poison from a 1.8 MH dagger and 56% from OH.
^idk if dis math is correct, in case it's not tell me right numbers and im correct it.

So as you can see 50% instant poison chance vs 64,5% makes a big difference in the amount of instant poisons. Number obviously vary on RNG. Can be less can be more.


Secondly gear setup.

Relating to above. Having low crit chance will make u yield low energy gain. After all each crit is +2 energy. Aka it results in low envenom up-time once again.
Then we have haste. More hits = more crits = more energy = more instant poison = more Envenom up time again.

Lastly
I've tested all of the PvE assa talents. And they all work. Envenom buff seems to work fine too. And regarding Assa dps as in whole. In patch 3.3.2 Hunger for Blood got reduced from 15 to 5%. So a 10% DPS nerf.

And before some1 says that I am bull****ting with the 90% up-time part. Here's the prof:
http://shrani.si/f/1B/Ra/3A24aCOm/envenomuptime.png

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i originally posted this in the comments section of a bug report but I feel it was misplaced and this aint the right place either but **** it. it required time and patience to do it right so here it is.

carried a couple of tests on a dummy while starting with 5 DP stacks and 5CP for envenom so i should get the maximum possible instant poison proc chance out of this while holding envenom buff up the entire encounter.
http://imgur.com/a/CTn0Q 60.87%
http://imgur.com/a/BISTy 60.68%
http://imgur.com/a/hRJ2x 61.56%
https://imgur.com/a/L3TDJ 60.28%

so it s not 67.48 - 65% as math predicts for a 1.8 MH dagger
formula used: instant poison procs x 100 / (melee + mutilate + envenom totals - misses)

i m also interested to know if envenom benefits from its own buff.

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Originally Posted by robycucu

i originally posted this in the comments section of a bug report but I feel it was misplaced and this aint the right place either but **** it. it required time and patience to do it right so here it is.

carried a couple of tests on a dummy while starting with 5 DP stacks and 5CP for envenom so i should get the maximum possible instant poison proc chance out of this while holding envenom buff up the entire encounter.
http://imgur.com/a/CTn0Q 60.87%
http://imgur.com/a/BISTy 60.68%
http://imgur.com/a/hRJ2x 61.56%
https://imgur.com/a/L3TDJ 60.28%

so it s not 67.48 - 65% as math predicts for a 1.8 MH dagger
formula used: instant poison procs x 100 / (melee + mutilate + envenom totals - misses)

i m also interested to know if envenom benefits from its own buff.

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It should benefit. As it's a main hand swing. Well you ppl who play assa rogues. Make bug reports..