Wipe the server !

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

This shouldn't go without saying, but the Staff responsible for that sort of events aren't Developers, making that request be the same as telling us to stop Moderating the Forums and to go fix bugs instead.

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I'm sorry I should have been more specific, that is in no way what I meant.

The fact that you have an event schedule (of which all of them are neither here nor there in terms of relevance to Neltharion) of Hide and Seek and Race Events on the forums but not an inkling of whats going on with Neltharion since May 10th of 2017 is pretty ridiculous. This is the last post in the Devlog for Neltharion:

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May 10, 2017

After a month of work we are now preparing to fully release Tol'Barad and all related features. This includes a full rework of the battlefield system and queue packets. We have also fully implemented blizzlike leeway mechanics for an improved combat experience. We will continue to provide new updates and features over the next few months, as usual.

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The last Changelog was posted on June 28th 2017.

People would prefer some information about the future of the realm they play on, rather than Warmane taking the time to make timeline of events on the forums that have absolutely zero relevance to the actual game itself. It does not make people want to play on the realm, it isn't promoting population. It's just neither here nor there.

In case we still aren't clear,

"content updates" = "Information about the realm, updates to devlogs/changelogs"

Xanaria I fear you miss several crucial points yourself.

Firstly it is darn difficult to encourage people to participate again on a server where almost everyone is walking around in full BiS. It feels like you walk up a steep slope while others can ride it in cars, motorcycles or even avoid it by plane. Resetting the server puts everyone back at square one and the competition will be renewed.

Secondly you must realise that the expansion itself lost a lot of players due to the Dragon Soul patch, not just broken spells, dungeons etc. Cataclysm was regarded as relatively okay until DS came, so aiding it in its current state might not be worth it at all, resetting it and keeping it maxed at say Firelands might spark more interest.

Thirdly, and this reason is tied to the second one, the PvP during the DS patch is beyond silly. For example, the legendary daggers were not even allowed on Neltharion yet still rogues kill targets during just the cheap shot thnx to Bonelink and Vial. The items from DS Heroic are so out of proportion I personally lack words to describe it. The mere suggestion of yours to script the legendary daggers only shows you have no grasp on the havoc it will cause relative to the gains.

And last but not least, content updates costs time and effort. Warmane is a business of sorts, and they need to calculate from where they get most profit and thus direct their attention there, and Neltharion is not providing profits anymore and I suspect it ceased to do so long before they started to give up on keeping it updated/fixed.
As of now Outland will likely be the server needing most updates as ZA will come in about a week and Sunwell/S4/IOQD on July 7th, hence not until the autumn do I see them being able to direct a large share of their attention elsewhere. Alas even if they get the opportunity to do so, we have little reason to believe it will be directed here.
Now a fresh Neltharion will no doubt come with certain problems, yet we can all agree it did work just fine back in the days and perhaps there is a chance a resetted server might aswell without requiring too much attention.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Xanaria I fear you miss several crucial points yourself.

Firstly it is darn difficult to encourage people to participate again on a server where almost everyone is walking around in full BiS. It feels like you walk up a steep slope while others can ride it in cars, motorcycles or even avoid it by plane. Resetting the server puts everyone back at square one and the competition will be renewed.

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What is Icecrown then? Is it a figment of our imagination? Try again.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Secondly you must realise that the expansion itself lost a lot of players due to the Dragon Soul patch, not just broken spells, dungeons etc. Cataclysm was regarded as relatively okay until DS came, so aiding it in its current state might not be worth it at all, resetting it and keeping it maxed at say Firelands might spark more interest.

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I take it you have not experienced this realm as much as some of us have. So I'll say this. Get off that "Dragon Soul Killed Cataclysm" bandwagon. I experienced Firelands when it was released, also when Dragon Soul was released. There were multiple guilds, <Care> <Myrmidons> <Imperial> to name some of the best, 2 Cataclysm realms chock FULL of players that were still there that played AND HELPED TEST Dragon Soul. So don't come with that BS. After things started to BREAK was the time when players got fed up. One of the times that Cataclysm had the most players was when Dragon Soul, Firelands, BoT, ToT4W and BWD were all open outside of 4.0.6.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Thirdly, and this reason is tied to the second one, the PvP during the DS patch is beyond silly. For example, the legendary daggers were not even allowed on Neltharion yet still rogues kill targets during just the cheap shot thnx to Bonelink and Vial. The items from DS Heroic are so out of proportion I personally lack words to describe it. The mere suggestion of yours to script the legendary daggers only shows you have no grasp on the havoc it will cause relative to the gains.

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Lol. The situation is the same on Icecrown with Shadowmourne/Arp Stacking/PvE Trinket using players. What's your point? Warmane made everything available on the store and ingame with the MAIN DIFFERENCE being Rogues could not purchase Bone Link Fetish on the store nor could any player purchase Spine Heroic Trinkets without a certain amount of /played time. Players could have raided and gotten any item they wanted to in-game and done PvP with it. Hell, the Legendary Daggers were on the store as well, with restrictions on who could purchase it. The only player I know that had it was Mihawk from old <Darkness Avengers> on Horde. Your argument is again void. The only way Rogues could have gotten HC trinkets was if they were in a HC raiding guild or got a slot for that item specifically and that was easier said than done.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

And last but not least, content updates costs time and effort. Warmane is a business of sorts, and they need to calculate from where they get most profit and thus direct their attention there, and Neltharion is not providing profits anymore and I suspect it ceased to do so long before they started to give up on keeping it updated/fixed.
As of now Outland will likely be the server needing most updates as ZA will come in about a week and Sunwell/S4/IOQD on July 7th, hence not until the autumn do I see them being able to direct a large share of their attention elsewhere. Alas even if they get the opportunity to do so, we have little reason to believe it will be directed here.
Now a fresh Neltharion will no doubt come with certain problems, yet we can all agree it did work just fine back in the days and perhaps there is a chance a resetted server might aswell without requiring too much attention.

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The whole reason Neltharion has crashed is because of the content getting broken and the players getting fedup and leaving. There weren't fixes being pumped out at all. Look at the bugtracker for Neltharion I'm talking from firsthand experience on the realm. How do you expect a realm (that was making money for a long time actually) that has been essentially ignored to generate sustained revenue over time if you aren't developing it? Revenue will fall off if you don't at least make it equal priority with your other realms.

I'll make it easy for your to comprehend what I'm saying. Take a person with progressive brain damage that is dying. Kill the person then bring him back to life just as he was before. He will still have the brain damage but will be able to live a bit longer now providing the disease doesnt kill him first. How much sense does that make if you don't find a way to stop the progressive disease in the first place? Get it now?

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

What is Icecrown then? Is it a figment of our imagination? Try again.

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Icecrown was not resurrected, it was formed from merges and a rather steady population still. These days the majority of players on Icecrown are very well geared, yet the opposite is true for Neltharion and even more so if you intend to attract people to start over to rejoin it. So like you said yourself, try again.

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

I take it you have not experienced this realm as much as some of us have. So I'll say this. Get off that "Dragon Soul Killed Cataclysm" bandwagon. I experienced Firelands when it was released, also when Dragon Soul was released. There were multiple guilds, <Care> <Myrmidons> <Imperial> to name some of the best, 2 Cataclysm realms chock FULL of players that were still there that played AND HELPED TEST Dragon Soul. So don't come with that BS. After things started to BREAK was the time when players got fed up. One of the times that Cataclysm had the most players was when Dragon Soul, Firelands, BoT, ToT4W and BWD were all open outside of 4.0.6.

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I have experienced this server for a long time thank you. I am not saying the DS patch alone forced Neltharion into this state, but it is certainly part of the problem. More players found DS to be a disaster than people who found it to be an improvement, there is a good reason for why Firelands was prefered as an end patch both PvP and PvE wise. Try a quick google search next time if you don't wish to take my word for it.

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

Lol. The situation is the same on Icecrown with Shadowmourne/Arp Stacking/PvE Trinket using players. What's your point? Warmane made everything available on the store and ingame with the MAIN DIFFERENCE being Rogues could not purchase Bone Link Fetish on the store nor could any player purchase Spine Heroic Trinkets without a certain amount of /played time. Players could have raided and gotten any item they wanted to in-game and done PvP with it. Hell, the Legendary Daggers were on the store as well, with restrictions on who could purchase it. The only player I know that had it was Mihawk from old <Darkness Avengers> on Horde. Your argument is again void. The only way Rogues could have gotten HC trinkets was if they were in a HC raiding guild or got a slot for that item specifically and that was easier said than done.

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The difference between Wotlk and Cataclysm is the strength of specs in terms of scaling with gear. In Wotlk all classes and almost all specs scales relatively equally in terms of BG fighting, yet the same cannot be said for Neltharion in the DS patch and you know it. Shadowmourne is not even remotely close to being as powerful as the daggers and if you want proof of this then just run some mathematical numbers yourself. It was removed and made broken for good reasons.

Now Icecrown does indeed have everything on the store, yet since when was raiding made difficult in the DS patch hmm? What's your point? You telling me it is difficult to do a raid even a pug can solo?
The only thing stopping people from getting those blasted items was the drop rates/raid locks and that's all she wrote.

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

The whole reason Neltharion has crashed is because of the content getting broken and the players getting fedup and leaving. There weren't fixes being pumped out at all. Look at the bugtracker for Neltharion I'm talking from firsthand experience on the realm. How do you expect a realm (that was making money for a long time actually) that has been essentially ignored to generate sustained revenue over time if you aren't developing it? Revenue will fall off if you don't at least make it equal priority with your other realms.

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See here's what you do not understand youngen.

IT DID NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY!

If it did then they would have fixed it and that's also the reason for why your idea is as unlikely to happen as mine or anyone else's here! Cataclysm has proven to be an expansion that is far less profitable than that of Vanilla, TBC and Wotlk. It was made a laughter of and DS was the cherry that topped this risible expansion.

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

I'll make it easy for your to comprehend what I'm saying. Take a person with progressive brain damage that is dying. Kill the person then bring him back to life just as he was before. He will still have the brain damage but will be able to live a bit longer now providing the disease doesnt kill him first. How much sense does that make if you don't find a way to stop the progressive disease in the first place? Get it now?

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Point taken. Now allow me to enlighten you.
The person with a brain damage is dying. He can be revived again but the damage persists. The doctors are ofc in a tense discussion about what to do. Oh not about the person, but about the costs for the clinic/hospital. It seems like it was not as profitable as they first thought. The costs for sustaining the patient and even possibly curing him was far greater than that of the profit possible from discarding the patient.

Hence, you need a way to make the server profitable and the reason did not lie in the bugs. We debate what we believe they should do but if we shall be frank and sincere here, we need to discuss how Neltharion, wiped or not, will rake in those needed profits. Yet I suspect that Neltharion lived simply due to the nostalgia or belief it could be a good expansion, yet people tried it and found it to be difficult.
Like the staff already stated, the amount of Cataclysm private servers are few and there is a reason for that.

all i see here is bla bla bla bla

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Icecrown was not resurrected, it was formed from merges and a rather steady population still. These days the majority of players on Icecrown are very well geared, yet the opposite is true for Neltharion and even more so if you intend to attract people to start over to rejoin it. So like you said yourself, try again.
I have experienced this server for a long time thank you. I am not saying the DS patch alone forced Neltharion into this state, but it is certainly part of the problem. More players found DS to be a disaster than people who found it to be an improvement, there is a good reason for why Firelands was prefered as an end patch both PvP and PvE wise. Try a quick google search next time if you don't wish to take my word for it.
The difference between Wotlk and Cataclysm is the strength of specs in terms of scaling with gear. In Wotlk all classes and almost all specs scales relatively equally in terms of BG fighting, yet the same cannot be said for Neltharion in the DS patch and you know it. Shadowmourne is not even remotely close to being as powerful as the daggers and if you want proof of this then just run some mathematical numbers yourself. It was removed and made broken for good reasons.

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Oh my, you really are a special one aren't you. WOTLK realms have been about far longer than the Cataclysm ones. Before and after the MoltDown they had far more people in BIS gear than any on Cataclysm for simply that fact alone. Also, please you're riding the bandwagon again, next time come with an unbiased view, you're starting to sound like a Liberal, ergo making zero sense when presented with facts. People WANTED to play Cataclysm when the realm was being updated, when there were more than 1 Cataclysm realms at POPULATION CAP. We are talking about MOLTEN/WARMANE not talking about RETAIL/LIVE feedback and all the butthurting that was posted on the forums coming out of WOTLK. The daggers were not REMOVED as you so claim, the quest line was never scripted due to a bug that made the quest line EXPLOITABLE. This was the same reason the Shadowmourne quest line was not scripted on WOTLK for such a long time. I don't have to "run mathematical numbers" lol, just look at the teams at the top of the ladder in 2v2 and 3v3 on Icecrown. The proof is there, Shadowmourne + PvE Trinkets kinda one sided no? Seeing as its always a Melee with a Healer/Caster. If anything Cataclysm had more items that could be obtained by MORE CLASSES in order to achieve a balance of some sort in that respect. You had Gurthalak/Rathrak/Kiril/ the spine trinkets and if this WAS retail you'd have had Dragonwrath Casters + Tiriosh and Golad rogues. Seems like there's a bit for everyone? Oh lets not forget the shared boss loot trinkets as well. TLDR in this case, don't blame a few for subhuman PvP ability. Everything can be countered and if you're going to say that BG's outside of rateds are considered "PvP" then you can feel free to leave the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Now Icecrown does indeed have everything on the store, yet since when was raiding made difficult in the DS patch hmm? What's your point? You telling me it is difficult to do a raid even a pug can solo?
The only thing stopping people from getting those blasted items was the drop rates/raid locks and that's all she wrote.
See here's what you do not understand youngen.

IT DID NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY!

If it did then they would have fixed it and that's also the reason for why your idea is as unlikely to happen as mine or anyone else's here! Cataclysm has proven to be an expansion that is far less profitable than that of Vanilla, TBC and Wotlk. It was made a laughter of and DS was the cherry that topped this risible expansion.

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You want to talk about raiding being difficult, PUGS are doing DS NORMAL, read it again, NORMAL, no guilds were ever pugging HEROICS unless they lacked 1-2 members and got them from another HEROIC RAIDING GUILD. If you're telling me that doing Zonozz/Warmaster/Spine/Madness Heroic was piss easy and you one shotted it the first day, GTFO. Dragon Soul is supposed to be piss easy right according to you. The normal versions of the items never caused any drama in terms of arenas/rated bgs. You know why? Because everyone doing any sort of rated PvP had the equivalent or the heroic variants. So don't come here and tell me it was one sided at all.

If you're presented with facts, and you still stick to your ASSUMPTION then I have nothing more to say to you. The realm was dying before the Molt-Down, this started since MOP was announced. You can FACTUALLY see a decrease in playerbase, after the servers were hijacked it was the last straw for most. I will say this AGAIN since you cannot comprehend. They fixed things and broke others, it got to a point where people left to play MOP or to go back to WOTLK, you cannot blame players for being fed up and waiting forever for items to be fixed. Warmane itself has STATED that porting to Cataclysm is HARDER than it is for WOTLK ->BC or other realms because the CORE IS DIFFERENT. They have also plainly stated that Cataclysm development has been SHELVED. All of these things have a part to play in why the server is how it is.

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Point taken. Now allow me to enlighten you.
The person with a brain damage is dying. He can be revived again but the damage persists. The doctors are ofc in a tense discussion about what to do. Oh not about the person, but about the costs for the clinic/hospital. It seems like it was not as profitable as they first thought. The costs for sustaining the patient and even possibly curing him was far greater than that of the profit possible from discarding the patient.

Hence, you need a way to make the server profitable and the reason did not lie in the bugs. We debate what we believe they should do but if we shall be frank and sincere here, we need to discuss how Neltharion, wiped or not, will rake in those needed profits. Yet I suspect that Neltharion lived simply due to the nostalgia or belief it could be a good expansion, yet people tried it and found it to be difficult.
Like the staff already stated, the amount of Cataclysm private servers are few and there is a reason for that.

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I believe I have not experienced this level of cancer for quite a while. I shall indulge a while longer.

To make money on a server, you need the playerbase. They had the playerbase. People played on Cataclysm because it was relatively new to the private server scene and MOLTEN at the time was the best you could get. Still is IMO. They came out with 4.0.6, scripted content, the server was in a fairly good state. 4/4 BOT 5/6 BWD 4/6 BWDHC 3/4 BOT HC Then they announced 4.3.4. They said that all things would be transferred and they had been working on 4.3.4 for some time. We transferred, the server was broken af during the initial release, not all the content was there, not even the raids and dungeons etc we experienced on 4.0.6. We stayed, we donated we supported. Things got fixed relatively quick, equal pvp and pve content being rolled out. Firelands was announced, players stayed #hype, Dragon Soul announced #hype Throne of the Four Winds #hype. There was a developer by the name of green_dev that interacted on the forums for raid scripting. We interacted, got things fixed. Made bug reports. Then updates started breaking things, slowly and slowly people got fed up. Warmane released MOP some people went there most stayed. Then things just kept getting worse and worse, starting zones got bugged for Worgen and Goblin, raid bosses being bugged, people got FED UP.

You need to look at this objectively and factually, during the summarized aforementioned history lesson I just gave things were going well. CATACLYSM WAS HOLDING ITS OWN. I knew players that dropped more than 10-20k on multiple accounts. That's PER PERSON so don't give me the BS that it was not making enough money that's why development stopped. Towards the end focus shifted and things were never completed. If development had continued and become on par with their WOTLK realms, Warmane would be the ONLY one on the private server scene with a complete Cata experience. That nobody else has, except for some Russian servers that I can't name here because of the ToS.

And lastly the only reason there are more WOTLK/VANILLA/TBC servers around is because they've been around FOREVER. Literally everything is known about how to code/script/develop for these cores. It. Is. Easy. Because it is EASY, there are COMPLETE! or very nearly completed in terms of content. People want to have a "complete" experience on a private server like RETAIL. That's the dream, that's why people gravitate towards Icecrown, that's why people are gravitating towards Outland. It's not necessarily because they like the expansion, that is part to do with it, but most players on these realms are willing to give Cata a chance if development was solid. Yes everyone has that one expansion that brought them into the game and they had the best memories on, but that doesn't last at all and sooner or later they will want to try something new.

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Originally Posted by rudiKING

all i see here is bla bla bla bla

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To be honest I have to agree. I frankly did not bother to read anything of the last post nor do I feel it is any point arguing in this case. We simply have too different views and perspectives that it leads nowhere. Id say, let the staff decide on what to do, although I suspect it will end with a shutdown and non-renewal.
Cataclysm simply never was as profitable as other expansions.

i have a smourne warrior on icecrown and i have absolutely no clue on how to play it, i just mash whatever button comes up and i somehow one shot someone

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Originally Posted by Indivision

i have a smourne warrior on icecrown and i have absolutely no clue on how to play it, i just mash whatever button comes up and i somehow one shot someone

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I had a BiS rogue here and I just needed to press 1 button to have any target die. You're not even near my league bro. :P

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

I had a BiS rogue here and I just needed to press 1 button to have any target die. You're not even near my league bro. :P

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i have a bis rogue aswell, but it takes me 3 buttons to kill someone. teach me pls?

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Originally Posted by Xanaria

- Fix the outstanding class issues (Cough Warlocks, Prot Warriors etc)

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But warlocks are fine :(

You get Bonelink HC, Vial and spec KS whilst using SoID. Simple.

Can you like stop crying about rogues being op? I'm a shadow priest player and i got no problem winning bgs vs rogue teams...

Most people are like: Oh no my healer is being attacked by nokhaled+vial rogue, guess i just gona keep attacking this feral druid in bear form cause as long as rogue is not on me im fine.

I see people like this every damn day, then they cry in caps how broken rogues are and how useless his team is.

Let me tell you a secret: rogues are terrible if u ruin their opener, no matter what gear they got.

Lets a simple situation: rogue opens on my healer.
a)if he doesn't use smoke fast enought:
1)I use leap of faith to get healer out and place one dot on rogue so he's forced to disengage or use cooldowns(at the same time healer has time to cast few spells and survive) hurray rogue is useless as he failed to burst a healer, if he comes near i will fear him, if he trinkets healer will stun/fear him. One way or another he lost.
2) i use psychic horror, rogue trinkets, healer will stun him while I'm coming with the fear, rogue is forced to disengage, cheers he is useless now.
b) he uses smoke before i react:
1)i run into smoke and fear him, he trinkets, i pop psychic horror or healer stuns him. Rogue is forced to disengage.
2) healer is forced to pop cooldowns and barely survives the smoke, after which leap of faith is the save i go for.
3) healer dies, oh no rogue popped all his cooldowns(dps trinket, shadow dance, most likely cloak, vanish and anti stun trinket) now he can't engage anyone until he gets his cooldowns back or he will die and our healer is coming back in 30 seconds, gota play safe during that time. But it's most likely your foult for not saving healer.

The "oh no rogue opened on me" situation:
Did you know that rogues can not use kidney shot if they don't have enough combo points? Oh u did? Then why did you let them get them? Oh u couldn't stop them? Are you sure you couldn't? Well you could. When rogues open they will go for garrote or cheap shot, both of which will give them 2 combo points(they get 1 from garrote, but they will get extra one from first few garrote bleed crits, read honnor among thieves tallent if u dont know what im talking about), well that means they need atleast 2 more attacks to get 5 points for kidney, so if u trinket right when they open on you and don't afk half of the cheap shots duration magic will happen! If i fear them they will be forced to trinket, i know that so i will physic horror right after(no rogue will cloak this, every single one of them will wait for dots or anything else better, cause cloaking after fear while i got nothig is really a waste) so now i got 3 seconds to cast something while disengaging, dots are useless, so what if i do some damage, it will not save me. I need to bait cloak out, so i mind spike(one spike, not two) into mindblast into any dot, he is now rooted(if i fail and i dont get mind blast crit i use hax to pop my tailoring net, no one cares about honor in bgs, it's all about victory!), most of em will cloak now, and vanish(or shadow dance) into shadow step into stun into full nuke, if they don't they are dead. I got no choice but to disperse, now it's all about who kills who, if i survive few seconds till my next fear rogue will lose or will be forced to run away, if i don't i am dead. One way or another i bought plenty of time for anyone in my team to come and help me out, so i had more chances to win from the very beggining.

And please be aware that not all engagements can be won, both you and rogue will do mistakes, some encounters will be easier, some will be harder it all depends on your ability to control the fight.

If u can't come up with a simple strategy on how to counter rogues after all these years of Cataclysm i am really not sure how u managed to register on warmane, all those complicated words during email confirmation should've melted your brain.

You seem to be under the impression you actually get to fight or prevent the strike or for that matter that friends will intervene. That however is not the case as you can pre-determine your trinket procs and crits in Cataclysm and all you need is one stab and trust me, nothing you do will prevent that. Or have you forgotten that you're playing on a server with more bugs, broken addons and exploits than the 3 previous expansions combined?

We can sit and debate our little PvP scenarios all day long but that will not solve the core issue here, which is money.
Now I have said what is on my mind in this thread and so I shall take my leave and hope for a reset + a minor refund.
Good luck folks.

please either wipe the server with a % refund of coins spent, thanks