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> Implying I was talking about Molten
From the start, I mentioned RETAIL-LIKE. If you want to talk about molten, you should have said that. And they both have the same stat priority, so assuming the same gear the crit level should roughly be the same. Especially since as FFB you don't have FoF so Shatter is useless, and the only talent that got to do is crit is increase critical damage bonus. Not chance.
And stat priority is the same too, minus the extra 3% hit.
My first post on this post:
Fire TTW > FFB if everything is retail like. I have a big suspicion that Frostfire is double dipping from ICC Aura, resulting 4x instead of 2x crit modifier for the spec. Along with the TTW bug, it pushed Frostfire to the top.
I mentioned IF EVERYTHING IS RETAIL LIKE. But you just had to go argue, with really nothing before your previous post at 6:40 that you meant retail.
Ffb is top mage dps hands down. With low latency, less than 200 ms, and full raid buffs, no other class/spec beats ffb if they crit at least 80%. Lol insta pyro, lol 225% ffb crit damage before met gem and ignite. Lol ignite doing like 70% of crit damage in Icc wtf.
I don't know, but is ffb supposed to gain increased crit damage modifiers from both the frost and fire trees? If not, I actually think ffb spell power scaling is too high if its crit damage is too high. Not that it matters on molten, but I'm curious if 99% of retail mages shun ffb altogether, how is it so overpowered here, because fireball ignites should be stronger than ffb. Or are those 99% noobs and overlook ffb just because you don't get focus magic? It's a mystery to a private server junkie like myself,
Theorycrafting is done on the basis that all possible variables are correct. Spellpower coefficient wrong? Meaningless numbers. FFB benefits twice from ICC Aura? Meaningless numbers. This server is blizz-like, as in everything is like it is in retail. When it isn't, you try to analyze the part that is incorrect, not go and take advantage of the bugs (cough) mastery rouges (cough).
@warpzone. 2 reasons. 1 Ignite isn't over-proccing or dipping, which put the value of crit down much lower. And TTW scales much better. Over here, my theory is that Frostfire Bolt dips twice from the ICC 30% aura, which pushes it to much higher then fireball.
Dude seriously, you have been told several times already whats the bug with fire specs. There is only ONE BUG in ffb spec which is NOT MAGE SPECIFIC. All damage done as % of other damage gets +30% bonus in icc, which was not the case on retail. Which means ONLY IGNITE does MORE DAMAGE ON MOLTEN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsulot
If its so hard for you to understand read the words written in capital letters above. Stop making stuff up.
And just fyi: ffb crit is higher than fb crit. Both here and on retail.
10% fb dmg 10% spirit 2% crit -vs- 100%increased crit damage and icy veins
yes fb gain a litle more from spell power, but still as i know fb/ttw was better on retail only until icc coz there was not enough crit in gear
for example
11,5k normal fb will crit - 20125 dmg
10k ffb will crit - 22500 dmg
with 50%crit average damage of 100 hits
fb - 1581250 without ignite
ffb - 1625000 without ignite
so if we take in mind that pro gain 12% dmg from ttw and ffb have higher ignites it will be almost the same - fb/ttw = ffb
but with higher crit chance(i have like 80-85%+ in raid) ffb scales better
it's my calculations, maybe i 'm wrong dunno just tell me where i'm wrong
hey guys look for low gear there is no doubt and no pro mage is hesitant to say that arcane is the best , now look in late game with full gear in" Rawr" if u look, a FFB mage can do 22750 dps, a FB mage can do 23480dps and an arcane one can do 20100 dps and frost deals 17500 (XD) so FB is best for late gear but also know it really depends on ur gear skills and boss to choose best talent but whenever ur gs get more than 6100, FB is the best if u want i can instruct u in FB mage with talents, glyphs, gear and ..... and also Ignite doesnt do 50% of damage (FTW) it only deals about 27% of dps and pyro blast deals 32% of ur dps and most of it is from FB or FFB
and finally wiht full buff FB has 2.01 sec cast time with 9800 avg dmg and 28.5k avg crit while FFb deals 9100 avg dmg and 30k avg crit with a 2.2 sec cast time and if u are looking for really high crits go frost its deep freeze deals 45k avg crit O.o
FYI molten is based on Trinity Core, and all of its stats/ coefficients / multipliers / effective spellpower / effective spellpower ratio / crit multiplier / etc are based on the charts released by extensive testings of spells, so ur claim of being unsure of everything is not true but somehow its not also false, because all of scripts were written entirely from start and there are script differences between blizz and molten, but the difference is not that much. the point is this:
- FFB 's Spell power Coefficient is 1.0x while FB is 1.15x, means spell power have 15% more benefit for FB than for FFB (PROOF:http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficient#Mage), so for example if u have 4k avg in-fight spell power, it would be 4600 for FB but still 4k for FFB,
- Plus u are only considering damage and that is wrong, u have to consider Damage per Cast Time (DCT), which FB have less cast time than FFB (that is obvious)
- FFB have 3.25x crit multiplier while FB have 2.5x multiplier
- who says TTW is bugged or is not working? i have seen a 5.6 gs FB mage dealing 17k dps on saurfang while a FFB mage 5.9 on that raid was dealing 16k, i still had not the chance to see 2 BiS FB and FFB mages in same raid.
- about the "crit chance of FFB is more than FB", who says that? just the 2% glyph? so wheres is focus magic benefit? and even if u 2 have focus magic (for example FB mage casting Focus Magic on FFB mage), where is the Student of Mind' spirit bonus which results in increased crit chance? FB winds up having 79.17% crit while FFB 79.42% and i dont think that is "more crit than FB", they are practically the same
- and btw before some patches, FFB was not even able to compete with FB they boosted it so it can compete with FB
(Proof: Fire - Frostfire - Frost - Arcane - the choice isn't really becoming better. Frost got some little buffs and is maybe halfway there to competitive for raids outside gimmick fights. T9 gear and set bonuses emphasise on crit, which makes Arcane a little worse with every new item due to crit scaling. It also boosts Frostfre to be competitive with Fire.
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...dium-333-live/)
- now the IGNITE part, do u even know ignites mechanism? if u crit for 1000 then ignite will damage 400 over 4 seconds in 2 ticks every 2 seconds which means 200 every tick and this 2 seconds is not reduced by haste so its constant, now what makes FB's ignite to be equal or in cases more than to FFB's Ignite is the other part of mechanism, as i mention thee is a 2 second period between ticks, now if u deal another damage before the first tick, the damage will stack, for example if u deal 1000 damage and ignite dealing 200 per tick, if u deal 1200 crit before the first tick, the first tick would be 200 + (1200*0.4/2) = 440 dmg but if u deal the 1200 damage after the first tick, it would be 200 + (1200*0.4/2/2) = 320 dmg, as i mentioned FB have less cast time than FFB, (about 1.9 , while FFB have 2.05 - 2.1), this cast time below 2 second will result in increased dmg of FB's Ignite so it mathces up with 15% increased dmg tick of FFB's Ignite (3.25x - 2.5x *40% / 2 ticks = 15%) compaerd to FB. (PROOF: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...=1#post9076450)
-FB is cool! yeah, with all those FFB mages everywhere, being FB is kinda uniqueness :D
con of FB: FB model and animation sux compared to FFB, its a tiny flame ball compared to awesome FFB :/
- but the final conclusion: with all mentioned above, theoretically FB have 1-2k more DPS than FFB, BUT practically dps of FFB and FB really depends on YOUR chance (not Spell's Chance) (proccing pyro) and doing everything on time and managing fight and etc, so really ts up to every1's own decision
Sorry for this, but i had to
Retail
Fire >= Arcane >> Frostfire Bolt > Frost
Molten
FFB > Fire > Arcane >> Frost
Arcane was the better spec on progression, before the massive ICC buff went in, but afterwards it was competitive as long as Fire wasn't getting to pad (Lich King adds, etc)