[Guide] PVE Assassination rogue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DropDaDrop

Do you realise why dual-wield classes suc mostly on Molten? Hitcap formula for offhand is broken. Haste gives you just attack speed and you do not benefit as much. Not gonna aruge with you, you've got fancy talk but its clear that you havent played rogue here as much as some people did. Theroy wise this thread is close to good but in reality it gets beaten with ease peace out.

---

Not gonna argue with you either, because you're not providing any arguments, but instead only trying to patronize people. I know formulas are wrong on Molten. Every half-decent Rogue knows that. Not just the haste formula, by the way. Nobody knows exactly how though, YOU included. Unless you can show exactly what's wrong with the formulas, show a significant proof that one way is better than the other and provide arguments, you don't really have the right to speak in such a tone.

And pls you have no idea how long I've been playing on this server...

better if you get instant poison IX, it's better than VII

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pibels

better if you get instant poison IX, it's better than VII

---

Thanks for telling that:P Changed

So I have a question regarding gemming, am more interested in gemming AP rather than haste(I have seen some rogues stacking 40AP gems and well they topped voa25 with 13k wich I thought was pretty awesome) the thing I am having a debate in wether I should gem 20agility or 40AP? (yeah it's half the amount of the pure AP gems but they give us cri% and also with 'horn of winter' & 'kings' won't it be just a bit behind 40AP gems? aside a crazy load of extra cri%? , and also I never understood why 1.40 weapon is so important am doesn't it add like just a bit more poisons? Am very new to rogues so sorry if some of my questions seem too ignorant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trm90

So I have a question regarding gemming, am more interested in gemming AP rather than haste(I have seen some rogues stacking 40AP gems and well they topped voa25 with 13k wich I thought was pretty awesome) the thing I am having a debate in wether I should gem 20agility or 40AP? (yeah it's half the amount of the pure AP gems but they give us cri% and also with 'horn of winter' & 'kings' won't it be just a bit behind 40AP gems? aside a crazy load of extra cri%? , and also I never understood why 1.40 weapon is so important am doesn't it add like just a bit more poisons? Am very new to rogues so sorry if some of my questions seem too ignorant

---

It's the right place to ask this.
It's quite simple 20 agi gem gives yoo 20 AP with kings it's 22 and you get a little crit bonus also but it does not weight up the 40 AP gem. I'll try to get correct amount of crit as soon as possible.
Added this to the guide. Thanks :)

Neat thread.

I am using Elitist Jerks rogue spreadsheets. I have even edited them to better reflect situation on molten. (They count that you have 40 extra expertise ratting (meaning 22 is considered the cap), and meele crit cap calculation is changed (crits seem to push glancing blows off combat table on molten) rest is same as original - it suggest using a couple of different gems)

Molten version:
Assa
Combat


Original version (less accurate on molten atm):
Assa
Combat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jendah

I am using Elitist Jerks rogue spreadsheets. I have even edited them to better reflect situation on molten. (They count that you have 40 extra expertise ratting (meaning 22 is considered the cap), and meele crit cap calculation is changed (crits seem to push glancing blows off combat table on molten) rest is same as original - it suggest using a couple of different gems)

Molten version:
Assa
Combat


Original version (less accurate on molten atm):
Assa
Combat

---

Your spreadsheet tells that Agility gem is better than AP gem. In other words (I guess it's with 10% Kings buff)20 Agility = 22 AP + 19,73 melee crit rating. The Crit rating what Agility provides includes yellow & white hits. It does not affect poisons.
With higher gear Haste is far more valuable than AP or Agility.

+1, neat guide.
Kinda wish I had a rogue now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fappy

Your spreadsheet tells that Agility gem is better than AP gem. In other words (I guess it's with 10% Kings buff)20 Agility = 22 AP + 19,73 melee crit rating. The Crit rating what Agility provides includes yellow & white hits. It does not affect poisons.
With higher gear Haste is far more valuable than AP or Agility.

---

Haste increases dmg with: meele and poisons. - It does not increase your Mutilate and Envenom DMG.
AP increases all dmg.
Crit from agi increases dmg with everything, but instant and deadly poison.

While poisons are main source of our dmg they are not the only one. (35% of mine) Simulations like those spreadsheets might point to situation where it might be better to slightly invest into other sources of dmg (it counts only from current state - stat weights are changed after every gem change).

Other than that if you are interrested in testing something you can get quite good results without spending gold to do so.

I am not saying to blindly follow everything that pops on you from spreadsheet, but I consider it a very good tool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dongwise

Neat thread.

---

Thanks for the support:).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArkuEST

+1, neat guide.
Kinda wish I had a rogue now.

---

Glad to hear that:P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jendah

Haste increases dmg with: meele and poisons. - It does not increase your Mutilate and Envenom DMG.
AP increases all dmg.
Crit from agi increases dmg with everything, but instant and deadly poison.

While poisons are main source of our dmg they are not the only one. (35% of mine) Simulations like those spreadsheets might point to situation where it might be better to slightly invest into other sources of dmg (it counts only from current state - stat weights are changed after every gem change).

Other than that if you are interrested in testing something you can get quite good results without spending gold to do so.

I am not saying to blindly follow everything that pops on you from spreadsheet, but I consider it a very good tool.

---

Agility is not a stat a assassination rogue want to focus on. It comes with the gear. But these spreadsheets could be useful for building up a gear I agree it could be a good tool. Let's see what other people think about this. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trm90

I am having a debate in wether I should gem 20agility or 40AP? (yeah it's half the amount of the pure AP gems but they give us cri% and also with 'horn of winter' & 'kings' won't it be just a bit behind 40AP gems? aside a crazy load of extra cri%? , and also I never understood why 1.40 weapon is so important am doesn't it add like just a bit more poisons?

---

Your questions are quite valid, especially on Molten, where buffs and auras used to stack until recently.

1) 40 AP gems net more DPS than 20 agility, the crit gain from 20 Agility is not worth the AP loss.

2) It's a 1.40 speed dagger, now add 40% from SnD, 30% from Bloodlust, 20% from Windfury Totem / Icy Talons, add Haste from your gear, food, elixirs and Potion of Speed and the difference between 1.80 and 1.40 becomes HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. The main damage from Assa comes from Instant Poison being reapplied by Deadly Poison, which happens the most when the Envenom buff is up, which is basically the point of the whole Assa rotation - having a 100% uptime on Envenom. During that time your 1.40 OH dagger will attack for like every 0.5 sec or so, with an improved chance to apply poisons, which means that basically when you have Envenom up almost every OH attack you do will apply DP, and therefore IP.

^this is basically the whole theorycrafting behind WotLK PvE Assa in a nutshell.

ive both 1.4 and 1.8 for off hand i tried both and found our a diff 1k dps, with 1.8 i do more damage than 1.4.
i use to think the same thing and your argument is absolutely correct so is it another bug or sth on molten?

my rogue is 6.1 assasin wotlk exp
1.8 is rib spreader http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50016
1.4 is lungbreaker http://www.wowwiki.com/Lungbreaker

1 more thing lightning reflex should give 10% mhaste i chked before applying talents and after it did no differnce.

your help will be much appreciated

I'd say the 1k difference is marginal and doesn't have to do with the weapon speed but instead with other minor circumstances affecting the current fight (like Lungbreaker giving ArP, instead of Haste, trinket procs, raid buffs etc).

Stat changes from talents are not shown on the character sheet on WotLK. If you check your weapon speed, you will see the change.

Comet's trail is listed under BiS helmets and not trinkets.