World of Multiboxing

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Originally Posted by Xaverus

1. IsBoxer is the best program for multiboxing. All experienced multiboxers use this one. But it is not free. You can purchase it on their site http://isboxer.com/
You can find cracked version on this forum as well. Just search for IsBoxer.
2. HotKeyNet is another program, which is powerful enough, but not as good as IsBoxer. But it is free. It's website is http://www.hotkeynet.com/

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I have to disagree with that.
ISBoxer is the program that inexperienced boxers use. It is specifically made for people who dont have the programming knowledge to use a tool like HotKeyNet (HKN) or even making their own broadcaster.
ISBoxer is a graphical utility that can only attempt to implement the functionality that a programmatic utility (like HKN) can.

I have tried out ISBoxer but I cannot see anything in there that I cannot do programmatically with HKN.
While with HKN I can do a whole heck of allot of things that ISBoxer cannot do.

The difference here is that for every functionality you want to have in ISBoxer - it must be individually implemented as that specific feature - by the developer of ISBoxer.
That is why ISBoxer has so many menus / submenus / etc. Each of these things is a specific functionality.

While in HKN it simply provides you a fully capable programming interface.
HKN programming interface can interact with every single possible element of a client window and the machine hardware.
Therefor there are unlimited possibilities with HKN.
It is up to you as the user what you want to do with HKN.
While if you use ISBoxer you are limited to what the developer implements; and there will always, always, be features that arent implemented which you can do in HKN but you cant in ISBoxer.


ISBoxer is 10x easier to setup and use though. That is why so many people use it.
Basically:
Pro boxer = HKN
Casual boxer = ISBoxer

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Also If you are going to Multibox on Molten, I highly recommend to play on Neltharion server for Horde side. We have very good and friendly Multiboxing community there. Our guild name is World of Multiboxing. Contact Arpeccop . Xaoc . Naturalist or Adead in game.

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I'm jumping on nelth with 10box. But I havent seen your guild.
What is the name?
"World of Multiboxing"??
I try to search for you but I see nobody on.

Can you give some examples of features you have implemented in HKN that are not possible using ISBoxer?

I've used both and ISBoxer has provided every function that I've ever needed for WotLK. Works perfectly for both PvP and PvE.

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Originally Posted by Mythal

I'm jumping on nelth with 10box. But I havent seen your guild.
What is the name?
"World of Multiboxing"??
I try to search for you but I see nobody on.

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Name of the guild is "World of Multiboxing". Horde side. PM me name of one of your characters or post it here... We will invite you to the guild.

About HKN... well I have 10+ years of programming experience. And of course it was not hard for me to understand HKN's scripting language and it's main features. IsBoxer is better, just believe me...

The main things HKN is missing:
1. Windows Layouts. HKN is just key broadcasting program. While IsBoxer can split your screen into parts. I mean you can see whats going on in your background clients.
2. Build in WoW Macroses. IsBoxer program creates a special addon for WoW, called IsBoxer. This addon allows to specify WoW macroses of any complexity and any number of them. Which is VERY handy.

These two features are well enough to make your choice for IsBoxser.
And if you will go to IsBoxer deep enough you will understand that it allows to setup buttons as well as HKN's scripting language.

Join our guild and we will talk about IsBoxer's advanced features in more details.

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Originally Posted by kalvindeane01

Can you give some examples of features you have implemented in HKN that are not possible using ISBoxer?

I've used both and ISBoxer has provided every function that I've ever needed for WotLK. Works perfectly for both PvP and PvE.

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first of all lets get one thing clear about what im saying here so we dont get into an argument :)
1) ISBoxer is perfectly fine tool to multibox with. it will do 99% of what 99% of boxers need it to.
2) only reason i dont use isboxer is because i actually prefer having explicit programmatic control over what is happening on my system; rather than using a GUI. (and the 1% of things that i dont really need; but its fun to do)


so - one example of things you cannot do in ISBoxer is create new overlay buttons and panels. in HKN you could setup an entirely new interface with HKN only. you could play WOW in "video mode" (remove the entire UI) and use HKN to create overlay buttons and panels to do everything instead.
i dont do that; but its possible. i have seen someone do it. quite an amazing setup they had with 25boxing.

another example - with HKN you can run wow clients on any number of PCs.
you could run 5 clients on your laptop, 10 on your gaming PC, and another 10 on a PC with no monitor at all where the view is "PIP'd" (picture in picture) into your main view.

basically - HKN is a programming interface for the windows operating system.
you can manipulate, control, and create anything you want to within the wow window itself.

ISBoxer uses all the same operating system calls that HKN does. but in order for ISBoxer to do something - they must implement it specifically to do just that thing.
with HKN you can create your own ISBoxer to do all the things YOU want it to do.


once you learn how to use the scripting interface of HKN there is no point to use ISBoxer.
because you can do everything ISBoxer can do - plus allot more - AND in HKN it will always be more efficient and optimized. you will always have more control over whats happening because you actually have to program every single action yourself.
that also means you can screw things up, and it takes allot of debugging, and its not as easy, and much harder for non-programmers to use, etc.

but that is ALWAYS the trade-off.
if you know how to use scripting/programming languages you will ALWAYS have an edge over people who dont.
thats just a simple fact of the world of computers.

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Originally Posted by Xaverus

Name of the guild is "World of Multiboxing". Horde side. PM me name of one of your characters or post it here... We will invite you to the guild.

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i saw 2 of you online earlier. sent /whisper, but it didnt show up. maybe i was still too low level or something.....just rolled 10 goblin priests :D

catch you later - no worries.

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About HKN... well I have 10+ years of programming experience. And of course it was not hard for me to understand HKN's scripting language and it's main features. IsBoxer is better, just believe me...

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as an engineer i believe facts, not opinions.
when guaging something as "better" i do so based on functionality and optimization.
HKN > ISboxer --- in functionality
HKN > ISBoxer --- in performance/optimization

ive tried both extensively.
since i know how to program, there is no point to use ISBoxer.
i can do more, and do it better, with HKN.
thats just a fact.

its provable.

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The main things HKN is missing:
1. Windows Layouts. HKN is just key broadcasting program. While IsBoxer can split your screen into parts. I mean you can see whats going on in your background clients.
2. Build in WoW Macroses. IsBoxer program creates a special addon for WoW, called IsBoxer. This addon allows to specify WoW macroses of any complexity and any number of them. Which is VERY handy.

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1) what are you talking about??? window layouts are super easy with HKN.
check my screen setup --- these are all launched, resized, window borders removed, window handle renamed, and so on --- with HKN.
http://s22.postimg.org/t5kiancn1/sshot.jpg

2) i use jamba for all my macros. its a much better way to manage macros than doing them with ISBoxer - that is my opinion of course and is personal preference. jamba is awesome though and i wouldnt box without it. you can do allot of things with jamba ingame that you cannot do with ISBoxer though - so you have to use jamba anyway with ISboxer. might as well use jamba for macros too then, no?
you could create ingame macros with HKN as well if you wanted to program the scripting to setup an addon; but that is pointless because that is the same as creating a new addon......and when we have jamba already - why would anyone do that?
but thats what ISBoxer did.


the reason i also dont like ISBoxer is because the guy is out to make money with it.
this is a hobby that allot of us like doing and multiboxers are a nice community of players who like to help eachother.

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These two features are well enough to make your choice for IsBoxser.
And if you will go to IsBoxer deep enough you will understand that it allows to setup buttons as well as HKN's scripting language.

Join our guild and we will talk about IsBoxer's advanced features in more details.

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I've been boxing for over 6 years. i know isboxer very well. i was boxing before it existed.
simple fact is that as I already know HKN, it is moot and meaningless for me to use isboxer. it would be going backwards.
isboxer is already more complicated for me to use than HKN because i know how to script with HKN.
isboxer doesnt do everything HKN can do.
so why would i ever use isboxer?
especially when it costs money and the cracked version is buggy and has performance issues.

maybe you didnt use HKN enough or figure out how to do allot of the really advanced things with it.
otherwise if you are also a software engineer - im really surprised that you arent using HKN.

in fact the best tool for boxing is actually AHK; but it is very easy to make a mistake and do something with AHK that would be considered automation.
with HKN it ensures that functionality which can be automated is removed from the scripting engine.
thats really the only difference between AHK and HKN ---- is that HKN doesnt allow automation so that you dont accidentally do something thats against TOS.

isboxer will never - ever - be better than a pure scripting language.
isboxer is itself built inside of such scripting languages.

New video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlwMUTaJ6Rg
We recorded 2 bugs : 1: 4.27 minutes :) , 2: 4.12 minutes . And i dont know how report it , bugtracker is bugged ...

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Originally Posted by party

New video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlwMUTaJ6Rg
We recorded 2 bugs : 1: 4.27 minutes :) , 2: 4.12 minutes . And i dont know how report it , bugtracker is bugged ...

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An hour ago you were camping TB. (i know, i was murdered as soon as I teleported). It's all good though :)

With all of the programming you guys do, can you possibly program your setup to NOT kill me in particular? haha.


have fun~

"so - one example of things you cannot do in ISBoxer is create new overlay buttons and panels. in HKN you could setup an entirely new interface with HKN only. you could play WOW in "video mode" (remove the entire UI) and use HKN to create overlay buttons and panels to do everything instead."

Just wanna point out that yes, ISboxer can do this easily with Click Buttons and Keymap Wizard. It's not to hard to set up new panel as that'd be the easiest thing to do, as far as a new UI there are Add on's (i'm sure you know) that disable WoW's UI and leaves just the bars and you can move them where ever you want and if you need new buttons, well, ISboxer can give you new buttons with Click Bars.

"another example - with HKN you can run wow clients on any number of PCs.
you could run 5 clients on your laptop, 10 on your gaming PC, and another 10 on a PC with no monitor at all where the view is "PIP'd" (picture in picture) into your main view."

I almost took your word of it, but then I did a little research on ISboxer and came across this page:

http://isboxer.com/wiki/HOWTO:Use_IS...iple_Computers

That seems to say that Isboxer can run on multiple PC's..... but how is this possible when you said it couldn't?

It feels like i'm stalking you on the forums, but I assure you I am not, i'm just correcting everything that you;re stating wrong. Like this, "ISBoxer is the program that inexperienced boxers use". If anything, it all just comes down to preferance. Sure Isboxer is a lot more user-friendly, and sure HKN is more technical, but bother are great tools and it seems both can get the same job down and sure the guys at Isboxer are out to make money....but that's the American dream and if you're good at something, you might as well get paid for it. To me, it just seems you don't like isboxer because someone wants to make a buck off of your hobby, but is that really such a big deal? Also like to point out that Blizzard makes money off of WoW and Warmane also makes money off of WoW, but you seem to have no issues with them?

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Originally Posted by younggunz35

It feels like i'm stalking you on the forums, but I assure you I am not, i'm just correcting everything that you;re stating wrong.

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im perfectly cool with that.
my statements are not facts and i do not research into every single one of them.

if i say something is a definite fact - then its because i can prove it. (feel free to try and prove it wrong; kudos if you do! ill learn something new)

however the rest of these examples of potential things that you *might* not be able to do with isboxer - were exactly that: possible examples.
im not at all sure about them because i dont us ISBoxer.

however the point ive been making here is that there are NO examples of things you cannot do with HKN.
because HKN is a scripting engine - you can literally do....ANYTHING.

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Like this, "ISBoxer is the program that inexperienced boxers use".

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ive had this debate with many boxers and i will only say that the results of those many, many (fun and interesting) arguments was:
* "experienced boxer" comes down to preferential definition. its not a definition we all agree on.
A) some people think this means "what can be achieved of in-game content";
B) while others think this means "ability to do everything the most efficiently" with the boxing/macroing/setup itself eg: highest efficiency of control (which would - "supposedly" - result in ability to do more ingame content).
----- my definition of "experienced boxer" is B. but this is not true for everyone - so thats fine. we agree to disagree on that.

* before ISBoxer, pwnboxer, etc were so good - the only way that you could multibox was to
A) have ability to script your own programs; and/or
B) actually multi-BOX (multiple keyboards/mice/computers --- this was the ORIGINAL "multiboxing" => multiple + boxes)
----- i began boxing in 1998. with everquest and ultima online. i actually had 3 computers and KVN switches to control them all. then i began scripting window send_messages through win32 API programming so i could actually take full control of every game client process --- but this was considered cheating back then so i only did it for fun and stuck to actually having 3 computers = 3 clients running for my actual gameplay.
win32 API programming interface is exactly what HKN uses but it makes it very simple for us (and it ensures that no functions allowed in HKN are "cheating" / "automation" which is against most game's multiboxing rules so we dont accidentally create some script function that is against the rules --- this is why i use HKN instead of just programming my own version of ISBoxer)

* ISBoxer is by far the best multiboxing software currently. i believe that. i think everybody believes that. however as ive stated many times - HKN is not a multiboxing software. HKN is a scripting engine that lets you take full control of your windows operating system processes. you can use HKN to script normal windows tasks just as easily as you can to script multiboxing in WOW or any game out there. i use HKN to create "borderless windowed" game clients for all my games and "lock mouse cursor" in the game window with a toggle hotkey. for example in Civilization V i do this because the game doesnt have that functionality itself - so i can browse internet on my other monitors etc while playing fullscreen.
anything your windows operating system can do => HKN can manipulate it => there are no limits.
ISBoxer will always have limits. whether i know what those limits are? doesnt matter. because i dont even use ISBoxer. i can only guess what those limits are based on what people post in forums like this and say "halp! i canot dew dis feeture wit isboxer halp meee plox!!!" which is when i like to chuckle to myself and remind people that --- if they learned how to program; they would never have this problem and everything they did would be 10x easier and 10x more efficient.

that, is in fact, the only point im making here.

if you are multiboxing, you are starting to become more of a "power user" of a computer than a normal "user".
why not take it to the next step - and become a "super user" by learning how to script your operating system or program a little bit?

it will increase your capacity, ability and efficiency with computers 10-fold; and that includes multiboxing........

this comes back to the simple fact that - anyone who is a super user / engineer-level user --- would never use ISBoxer. we would only use HKN or AHK or script our own.
so if we - the highest level of professionals in the computing/technology industry - are all saying the same thing: HKN is the best multiboxing method; then maybe you should try to understand WHY we are saying that rather than trying to argue with people who know more than you (about computers - that is)

fair point?
your greatness? :D

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If anything, it all just comes down to preferance. Sure Isboxer is a lot more user-friendly, and sure HKN is more technical, but bother are great tools and it seems both can get the same job down and sure the guys at Isboxer are out to make money....but that's the American dream and if you're good at something, you might as well get paid for it. To me, it just seems you don't like isboxer because someone wants to make a buck off of your hobby, but is that really such a big deal?

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actually - exactly the opposite.
im a tech entrepreneur myself who has built some very big companies. you might even use some of my products :)
right now i actually invest in tech startups.

i dont have a problem at all with isboxer.
i like it and i love that the guys who made it have opened up multiboxing to the masses.
they are to credit with multiboxing being so widely accepted in so many games now - because more people are able to do it = companies are finally looking at us as viable customers simply wanting to play "our way" which we find more challenging and fun.
we also pay allot more money - because we have multiple accounts - so its a win-win.
i love isboxer and the team that made it.

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Also like to point out that Blizzard makes money off of WoW and Warmane also makes money off of WoW, but you seem to have no issues with them?

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of course i dont.
i have donated on all my accounts to Warmane - i even offered them $120,000 in servers/datacenter hosting (they declined - because my host is IBM and they already tried before and it didnt work for them). im going to check if i can offer them another host soon but it probably wont be as big because our primary datacenter accounts are hosted with IBM now (thats how i can get them so many free credits; i get $1 free for every $10 we spend).
it didnt sound like they were interested in the offer anyway. they seem to be very protective about where to host their servers; which i fully understand because blizzard is a shark company that goes after all these private servers pretty harsh.
but ill always donate here as long as i play.
only problem for me is that the servers have 300ms ping from where i live even with fiber internet. so its not that fun to play sometimes. id donate more and they'd have allot more players + make allot more money if they put servers spread out around the world. thats the primary reason i wanted to offer them better datacenter hosting solution too --- they need a better network and more global servers. (I dont think they want it though)

so anyway.
enjoy isboxer.
game on!

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Originally Posted by Mythal

A) some people think this means "what can be achieved of in-game content";
B) while others think this means "ability to do everything the most efficiently" with the boxing/macroing/setup itself eg: highest efficiency of control (which would - "supposedly" - result in ability to do more ingame content).
----- my definition of "experienced boxer" is B. but this is not true for everyone - so thats fine. we agree to disagree on that.

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The thing is that ISboxer meet the criteria for A and B.
U can do everything the most efficiently way with ISboxer and the software offers everything that u need to be successful in the game, so why should anybody of us switch to ahk or hkn and have a super hard time to learn all these script commands?
What powerful feature do we get that makes it worth to make the switch?
So far u werent able to list even a single useful feature that u can do with ahk or hkn but not with isboxer.
Imo the only big feature that works just with hkn and ahk is automation.
U can write bots with these programs and ofc it would also useful to have a automated script for multiboxing.
The reason why automation isnt available for isboxer is because botting is against the server rules.

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Originally Posted by mastainfasta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMIC2y-3lRY

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im glad blizzard allowed this on wotlk and molten(warmane) does too.
I have 5 accounts 40 alts but can only play one at a time :(
but now thanks to all the multiboxing information I researched and the forums that I read, I will be able to play 5 at one time :D

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

The thing is that ISboxer meet the criteria for A and B.

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no - it does not.

i can prove this.
quite easily.
example: ISBoxer requires more PC power and is slower than HKN.
is it noticeable?
not really.
does it matter?
not really.

example: can ISboxer do everything HKN can do?
no it cant.
are the things that HKN can do (that ISBoxer cannot do) critically important to multiboxing?
most of them - no.

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U can do everything the most efficiently way with ISboxer and the software offers everything that u need to be successful in the game, so why should anybody of us switch to ahk or hkn and have a super hard time to learn all these script commands?

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i never said you should.

but you are trying to argue science and simple facts and laws of nature here.

fact: if you are able to script something, you have more function/control/power over your system than everyone who does not.
example: a car mechanic that can take apart his car and make sure it is 100% perfect --- is ALWAYS going to have a better car than someone who doesnt know how to open the hood and mess around with the car; and who simply drives the car.

simple fact: a power user/engineer is ALWAYS going to have better control over their system than a normal user.

you keep trying to argue this.
youre just sortof embarrassing yourself.

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What powerful feature do we get that makes it worth to make the switch?
So far u werent able to list even a single useful feature that u can do with ahk or hkn but not with isboxer.

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ive named plenty of things that i can do - which so far nobody has been able to mimick in ISBoxer.

however this is not my responsibility to name what ISBoxer cannot do.
it is your responsibility because **you are the one that uses isboxer**.
i dont use isboxer.
i dont care what isboxer cannot do because i already tried it and found it lacking.

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Imo the only big feature that works just with hkn and ahk is automation.

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AHK allows automation.
HKN does not allow automation.

that is why i use HKN and not AHK even though AHK is a superior scripting engine.

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U can write bots with these programs and ofc it would also useful to have a automated script for multiboxing.
The reason why automation isnt available for isboxer is because botting is against the server rules.

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You cannot write a bot with HKN. it does not allow automation. it enforces single action = single action.
keydown = single action
keyup = single action
key-hold-down = single action every 0.X seconds depending on your keyboard repeat system settings (this is operating system dependant, eg - hold down your "y" key and it types "yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" ==> each of those actions can be individually assigned an action)
key-toggle-state = continious action (eg: movement keys)

all of these one action = one action rules are explicitly described by blizzard - and molten copies those rules exactly.
HKN only allows these actions.
AHK however would let you script a fully automated bot with detection, timers, etc.
that is why i dont use AHK. i dont want to accidentally make some kind of script that breaks these rules.

i never understood why people botted though. whats the point? especially on molten the exp is 7x. botting to level up would take more effort than just leveling up yourself.

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Originally Posted by Twe12veGauge

im glad blizzard allowed this on wotlk and molten(warmane) does too.
I have 5 accounts 40 alts but can only play one at a time :(
but now thanks to all the multiboxing information I researched and the forums that I read, I will be able to play 5 at one time :D

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awesome :)
welcome to the family!

Hey all. New in all this mess! Before u start with multiboxing here or u have something against mboxers u need to know 1 thing, its PAIN to write all macros and make all this things that u c on videos working. Big freaking pain, but fun afterall and finally something new in wow. Im on HotkeyNet atm untill i figure out basics. Have 5man teams of rogues and rdruids atm. Lok'tar ogar!

And 5 man pve dungeon team of 5 pally-s!!!!!!!