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That's low and also includes adds and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijipls
The highest DPS on Naxx is gonna be hybrid locks, Arcane Mages and Frost DKs. I've already played on another progression server so I'm speaking from experience.
And even with the DK delay, other shammies can also give Str of Earth Totem and MM hunters can give Trueshot aura. Just saying.
8.70M is low. Alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by taralej
As opposed to the unholy dk's and warriors that the ele beat despite doing less then 1/4 of the aoe dmg they did? Also damage done is relative in regards to length of fight, and considering the mean dps was high in that raid, making the encounter fairly short, 8.7 mil is quite a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by taralej
Ele dps is definitely not below par if you are capable.
Still not as good as an equally geared and skilled Mage, Hunter, Rogue, DK, Warlock, SPriest, Feral Druid or Warrior, which I would take any day over an Ele Shaman... You're defending a standalone case; a BiS-geared Ele in a non-BiS raid with people who were either slacking or underperforming. The fact that you're 2nd on Recount proves that.
And by the way we're getting way offtopic now...
wtf are u talking aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by taralej
Par the bis of the afor mention classes that the ele is beating, even despite some being able to transit tunnel or cleave better? Just because you haven't seen any good ele shamans min-maxing doesn't mean the class as a whole isn't in league with the other classes. The fact that you mention rogues beating them at their current abysmal state also points to the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry if this got offtopic, but no information is better then false information.Quote:
Originally Posted by taralej
He's correct in most circumstances. What you linked is blatantly an outlier that points more to the fact that that particular shaman is more geared/skilled than the rest of the raid than anything else. At an equal gear and skill level, an Ele shaman won't get close to the top with mages, hunters, spriests, and warriors in the group (and if it does, then some of your raiders aren't as good as you think they are) which was his point all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijipls
His point seems pretty self-explanatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knezlazar0
So a good, min-max oriented Ele Shaman beat some crappy Hunters and Mages, and you're trying to push that as proof that the class isn't mediocre and that everyone else is just wrong. It's exhausting how the concept of "outlier" is so lost on some of you people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inda
It also amazes me how you knock down rogues in the same paragraph you talk up Ele shamans. Just because you haven't seen any good combat rogues min-maxing doesn't mean the class as a whole isn't in league with the other classes.
My whole point with that screenshot was to prove wrong whoever thinks you can't be close to the top as Ele Shaman. You can. 8.70M is a lot for that encounter, specially with how short it was (around 12min?). "But aoe!" "But other people sucked!" "He had better gear!". Go on. No one is ******ed here, no one ever said under the same circumstances (skill, gear and single-target encounter) Ele shamans are gonna outperform Hunters. I'm just giving you an example of how you can reach the top. 15k DPS sustained on that encounter is a lot. also kek @ crappy huntersQuote:
Originally Posted by Maniacofpeace
We actually have a large number of exceptional rogues in our guild currently, including myself. Some of these parsed highly on retail and have played the class exceptionally for a long period of time. The class is broken to a fault on warmane, where it simply cant perform on par with most classes. Elemental shamans doesn't face that issue, as many of the current bugs help ele as oppose to hinder. That's not to say rogues cant perform well, because they can, and that was never what I stated , its just they really aren't in the same league, especially as a pure dps class with not even half the utility of hybrid classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniacofpeace
As for the continued "its just an outlier" point of view, it shows to the fact that you really haven't seen good shamans, as countless times a shaman with gear and skill equal to that of a mage or hunter will still hold their weight on the charts.
I'm glad that at least someone understands me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniacofpeace
And by the way I've seen non-BiS Rogues dealing 20k on Festergut on Warmane in their "current state". I know just what kind of "ex-retail pros" Warmane is full with who never research but only speak from their own isolated case. Once again, if you're second on Recount as an Ele Shaman, then you either outgear the group or they just suck. I used to be the top Demo Lock on Ragnaros before ICC Hc release when I paused WoW and mind you I played as full SP + Spirit Demonic Pact oriented, as opposed to the standard DPS-oriented mage-like Haste + Crit gearing. I topped meters with THAT build, did that mean Demo Locks were top DPS? No, of course. I knew that my DPS was not high at all - 18k on Fester/DBS in non-HC gear at a time when skilled donor Rets and MM Hunts were going over 25k even 30k due to bugs. I knew that I was top because the rest sucked not because I was "exceptional" or because Demo Locks are top DPS on WotLK. I was just doing my optimal rotation (which we all know is not hard as Demo) in optimal gear (pre-Hc BiS non-donor). Same as you.
You just have to understand that the majority of people are mediocre. This is not flaming or anything, it's just statistics - it's called a "bell curve". 70-80% of all people are mediocre, 10-15% are really bad and 10-15% are really good, including WoW players, including top guilds. I've seen players in top guilds with LoD who have bad gems, talents and messed up gear. Does that make them some kind of PvE prodigies? No, it makes them carried. PvE is not rocket science, the encounter will always be the same, the next best button you can push in your rotation will always be the same, there is only one best talent build, best rotation, BiS gear for said encounter, best tactic etc - people just suck. You don't, which is evident from the screenshot, but this doesn't mean Ele Shamans are top DPS. Fireball Mages and Fury Warrs are - now imagine if you were playing one such instead of an Ele...
Once again you fail to see the concept of what both Jiji and myself are trying to state. We are saying that elemental shamans aren't as underpowered as previously state in this thread, not that they are the bee's knees of dps classes. I don't know why you feel the need to bring in other cases (specifically rogues where literally the whole concept is the same????), completely missing the point of the entirety of any of these posts just for the sake of arguing.
Here's a few quotes for you because obviously too much text is making it hard for you to comprehend:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijipls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inda
Stop with the self-defensive attitude and the whole "but ele isnt top dps hur dur" thought-train because no one ever stated that, and no one with basic cognitive abilities would. When you do the same encounters over 500 times within a few years you tend to learn what classes outperforms others on a general basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijipls
Ps. im pretty sure where arguing to the same point here?
PS - Yes, we are now... This wasn't how it started though.
Can we give this guy a cookie for using the phrase hur dur? this made my day :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Inda
I agree. Ele shamans are not the top dps spec. (Duh?) but they can do some serious damage and if needed throw out some quick heals in a pinch if a healer dies. They are great assets to any raid. They also, like other shamans, bring heroism. Which is not always found in a 10 man raid. Also ele shamans are cool as ****. They shoot badass lightning and molten lava. Besides anyone and their dog can play a hunter. Ooo look at me I hit chimera shot and aim shot im so good.
Ret will suck until they get to ICC and the 2T10. 2T10 accounts for literally 1/3 of your DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakkre
And this (http://i.imgur.com/CxqTYCW.jpg) is about as irrelevant as it can get. Upon closer examination you`ll notice the sub-par DPS with a lot of damage done - this about certainly means that someone tried to uselessly push their damage done by needlessly damaging adds during p1.5 amongst other things. LK isn`t an 100% uptime boss, therefore, the damage done statistic is irrelevant. Watch for the DPS, not the damage done.