[WOTLK] The insanity of "GearScore" - It MUST find a fast death!

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

And Lordaeron will eventually grow in "GS" requirements. That's natural, since it's a static expansion in the end of the day. As time passes, more and more people will increase their score to higher levels, and that causes the GS-freaks to increase the requirements.

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There are two factors for the GS inflation:
The "naturale" GS inflation that u mentioned already and the "unnatural" GS inflation caused by items in the Marketplace.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

The name of that is inflation, and the ones who can do something about that are the players.

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Not only the player but also the staff can do something about that.
In the end it is the Warmane staff who decides how expensive items in the marketplace gonna be and what requirements gonna be necessary to purchase them.
The price of the marketplace items gonna have a direct effect on the GS inflation.

Dont get me wrong. Im not against the concept to sell items for money. What else should pay the server and the staff?
Items just need to have the right price and requirements.

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Originally Posted by Jakkre

There are two factors for the GS inflation:
The "naturale" GS inflation that u mentioned already and the "unnatural" GS inflation caused by items in the Marketplace.

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Not only the player but also the staff can do something about that.
In the end it is the Warmane staff who decides how expensive items in the marketplace gonna be and what requirements gonna be necessary to purchase them.
The price of the marketplace items gonna have a direct effect on the GS inflation.

Dont get me wrong. Im not against the concept to sell items for money. What else should pay the server and the staff?
Items just need to have the right price and requirements.

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Yes, I understood your point. Mine is simply that the most the Marketplace can do is change the pace with which it happens. With the gear all being available in-game, people sooner or later end up having it, and that naturally makes the GS freaks increase their requirements. Their whole ideology is about "if everyone has X, we'll want a minimum of X+Y," and "X" is ever-increasing. The impact the Marketplace can have on that is, again, just increasing that "X" at a different pace, but the increase will happen one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Did you actually try that repeatedly and got those results consistently or are you just throwing assumptions in desperation to safe some face?

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Yes I did, because I have some gaming experience here on molten. It seems you don't understand who is posting here doing assumptions without knowing what we are talking about. I've tried to organize pugs many times and even for a normal voa 25 run, the easiest raid you can join on wotlk, you would find some gs addicted player complaining to the gearscore of one of your guildmates you have invited and who would be the only one being able to profit from the items dropped by the bosses, since he is the only one not bis geared with a shadowmourne. Than you would see the same player, who was complaining few minutes before, dying from the fire boss because he stood in the flames dropped on the floor. Than you will never find the patience to organize pugs again, but nevermind, it's just the result of your "inflaction", right? No wonder why we have such a bad community, if even the mods defend this kind of behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Panofsky

Yes I did, because I have some gaming experience here on molten. It seems you don't understand who is posting here doing assumptions without knowing what we are talking about. I've tried to organize pugs many times and even for a normal voa 25 run, the easiest raid you can join on wotlk, you would find some gs addicted player complaining to the gearscore of one of your guildmates you have invited and who would be the only one being able to profit from the items dropped by the bosses, since he is the only one not bis geared with a shadowmourne. Than you would see the same player, who was complaining few minutes before, dying from the fire boss because he stood in the flames dropped on the floor. Than you will never find the patience to organize pugs again, but nevermind, it's just the result of your "inflaction", right? No wonder why we have such a bad community, if even the mods defend this kind of behaviour.

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You actively and repeatedly tried to organize raids while making it crystal clear that there would be no requirements and people still joined and then complained? Not even when I did play here (and was a Guild Master) did I ever run into that sort of thing, so I'm going to be quite skeptical.

But even if what you say is true, blame illiteracy, not an add-on. Removing the add-on won't make people learn to read. On top of all that, you're complaining about finding one (or many) bad players, which also isn't the fault of an add-on. Would you want being able to examine equipment to be banned next? Because without gear score people would still say "your equipment isn't good enough." How about we make it so achievements are invisible to deal with the "you must have this and that achievement to join"? What else should we do so everyone is forced to join blindly because your handful of bad experiences left you "without patience" to start raids - which might even be the same situation who now make ridiculous requirements, not having patience anymore to deal with failure and wanting people so overpowered there's no chance of it?

I'm also not defending anything. The only add-ons I ever bothered to use were for mapping and questing, I don't even know what GearScore looks like. What I'm doing is just clearing up that people who do that will do that, and it's up to people who dislike that to do something about it - in-game, not complaining on the Forums.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

You actively and repeatedly tried to organize raids while making it crystal clear that there would be no requirements and people still joined and then complained? Not even when I did play here (and was a Guild Master) did I ever run into that sort of thing, so I'm going to be quite skeptical.

But even if what you say is true, blame illiteracy, not an add-on. Removing the add-on won't make people learn to read. On top of all that, you're complaining about finding one (or many) bad players, which also isn't the fault of an add-on. Would you want being able to examine equipment to be banned next? Because without gear score people would still say "your equipment isn't good enough." How about we make it so achievements are invisible to deal with the "you must have this and that achievement to join"? What else should we do so everyone is forced to join blindly because your handful of bad experiences left you "without patience" to start raids - which might even be the same situation who now make ridiculous requirements, not having patience anymore to deal with failure and wanting people so overpowered there's no chance of it?

I'm also not defending anything. The only add-ons I ever bothered to use were for mapping and questing, I don't even know what GearScore looks like. What I'm doing is just clearing up that people who do that will do that, and it's up to people who dislike that to do something about it - in-game, not complaining on the Forums.

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This is a forum, which has been made to discuss about things like the gs addon. The op created this thread to talk about it and I (we) shared my (our) opinion and expierience on how this addon affect the mantality of most of the pve players here on warmane. Following your logic, this forum should not even exist and your moderating role wouldn't even have a purpose. Stop replying to everything like "be a man, do something about it instead of wasting your time on the forums". If the gs freaks have a chance to learn something about their bad attitude is by reading these kind of posts. Or should we try to create a mature discussion on global chat while half of the players are spamming **** jokes or thunderfury?

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Originally Posted by Panofsky

This is a forum, which as been made to discuss about things like the gs addon. The op created this thread to talk about it and I (we) shared my (our) opinion and expierience on how this addon affect the mantality of most of the pve players here on warmane. Following your logic, this forum should not even exist and your moderating role wouldn't even have a purpose. Stop replying to everything like "be a man, do something about it instead of wasting your time on the forums". If the gs freaks have a chance to learn something about their bad attitude is by reading these kind of posts. Or should we try to create a mature discussion on global chat while half of the players are spamming **** jokes or thunderfury?

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And I shared mine, while you felt justified to keep making *****ic remarks about the fact I nowadays simply refuse to play on a PvP server as if that somehow impaired my opinion, when, if anything, it lets me have a non-biased opinion about the matter, unlike you and your desperate finger-pointing, while not doing anything to actually bring change and gather people who think like you to do things together, instead wanting to dictate how people who have a different mentality should play their game.

You want to "teach" something? Start by teaching yourself that sometimes - actually, quite often - people like the way they do things and don't want to "learn" your way any more than you're open to learn and play their way. While I can see how GS-freaks might frustrate people who don't care about that, I can also appreciate the fact that they aren't wrong, they are just different in how they want to play.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

You want to "teach" something? Start by teaching yourself that sometimes - actually, quite often - people like the way they do things and don't want to "learn" your way any more than you're open to learn and play their way. While I can see how GS-freaks might frustrate people who don't care about that, I can also appreciate the fact that they aren't wrong, they are just different in how they want to play.

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Honestly I really have to disagree with that.
Can you answer me for what exactly guides were actually made??

Correct. They were made to teach players how to reach a characters maximum of raiding performance. Not even one single of those guides even consider the word "GearScore" in their explainations. But exactly this is how raid leaders (=GS freaks) try to reach the maximum of raid performance.

So would you really call those guides completely wrong because they try to teach instead of agreeing with a "different" way how they want to play the game?

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Originally Posted by Eminemfreak1

Honestly I really have to disagree with that.
Can you answer me for what exactly guides were actually made??

Correct. They were made to teach players how to reach a characters maximum of raiding performance. Not even one single of those guides even consider the word "GearScore" in their explainations. But exactly this is how raid leaders (=GS freaks) try to reach the maximum of raid performance.

So would you really call those guides completely wrong because they try to teach instead of agreeing with a "different" way how they want to play the game?

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You're mistaken. Those guides were made to teach players who want to learn to do it that way. Is it wrong to do it by being so overgeared that all the careful steps in a guide become irrelevant? It isn't, it's simply a different way.

Those guides are exactly what it says on the label - guides. They aren't holy scriptures to be followed lest you be cast to MMO Hell. They don't have to be followed or read, except by those who want to do it that way. If people manage to do it their own way, it's still working.

When two (mature) groups of people want to do the same kind of thing in clashing ways, they simply do it among people of their own group instead of demonizing each other. Neither group is right nor wrong, they are just doing it the way they prefer. The problem actually starts when one group tries to claim the other "must find a fast death."