Unreal to get PVP gear

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

You can insult me all you like with claims that I am crying for easier gear

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You are crying for easier gear. Do you even read what you're writing? If you really think that making that gear easy mode for anyone to farm would make pvp better then I really don't know what to say. People have suggested higher arena point/honor rates in the past and they've all been laughed at, shot down, threads locked, rejected, pick your favorite choice of words. This is wow, we're just short of a Runescape grind, if you want something easier then donate or find a fun server.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

My point is that if the players are equally skilled, they will not.

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Sounds like a personal problem and incentive for people to learn how to improve in pvp.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

Typical attitude of a player who is happy to be facing furious players on his full wrathful char.

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Was that not a thing on retail for people coming in late to the season or PvP scene?

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

I actually do care about this server and if you'll notice above my suggestion was that more reasonable rates would actually encourage donations. I may be in the vocal minority, but that alone doesn't discredit my point.

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Wrong forum section for making suggestions.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

Let's face it. The PvP scene on DW/Rag is very stale at the moment and in my opinion this is largely due to the vast discrepancy between players queueing.

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I actually agree with this statement cause I know the queuing is rather unbalanced right now.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

You can insult me all you like with claims that I am crying for easier gear, or acknowledge the point I was actually making which may help revitalize the PvP scene on these realms.

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Some people may insult you and you're not alone in how you feel about of the points you're raising but sadly the state of the server tends to be more PvE focused and that has all of it's own set of problems.

What if I tell you... it has been like this for years and it will not change, everyone accepts that to get PvP gear, you need to PLAY to get it. Takes time yes true, but we all went thru this (unless you donate), so well deal with it.

Irrelevant to the discussion but I like your Artorias avatar :3.

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Originally Posted by Rifokelt

Irrelevant to the discussion but I like your Artorias avatar :3.

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haha thanks

too long didn't read l0l

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Originally Posted by magaginho

In order for a human being to develop, tentatives of failing and repeat are mandatory. That applies in this case. In order for those players to develop they need to go through the hard grinding and suffer in order to develop their skills. That logic applies either in PvP or PvE. In both cenarios you need to struggle in order to develop and denying that is creating a community without any kind of acknowledgement about their gaming capabilities.

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Oh so your argument now is that players need to “develop”. Playing with a large stat disadvantage is how player development occurs? What a joke. Just because something is a struggle doesn’t mean it automatically betters you as a player. I have been PvPing on Wrath for over a decade and the fact of the matter is that you simply cannot play in the same way in Furious gear as you could in Wrathful. Against lv 277 items during a CC chain you simply cannot choose to not use a defensive CD as you might in Wrathful because in Furious you simply won’t survive that rotation.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

I have multiple Toons with different sets of PvP Gear. Yes, I do own Wrathful toons but you know what? I've grinded in order to obtain it. I've submitted myself through the pain and here I am.

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There it is, the actual truth. “I’ve gone through pain so I want others to experience it too”.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

As Thydus stated above - Go through some Battlegrounds, grind some Honor points and get your Furious set filled with the off-pieces you need.

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Maybe you didn’t notice but I was talking about the discrepancy between furious and wrathful main pieces because of the extremely low arena point gain.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

Denying the majority opinion leads to anarchy.

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Anarchy? This isn’t a democracy, Warmane regularly makes decisions the majority disagrees with.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

If you think your point is so solid go present it to the developers themselves or to the staff themselves.

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I probably will if I find the time, but I guess it will be shot down by people like yourself who have already completed the grind.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

I've never seen any single Hardcore PvP'er make a rant about what you're making. Usually the rant is about the MMR drop and Scripting in Arenas - But that's a whole different subject.

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Oh I rant regularly across a variety of subjects. I just felt the need to chime in here because the experience for those furious geared players is quite miserable at first and to pretend that isn’t an issue is actually just quite selfish.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

it shouldn't be changed since Warmane is a Blizzlike server.

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Absolutely hilarious thing to say.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

PvE is dead as it is until the merge since most of the players are waiting for the merge (Icecrown) to pop in order to come back.

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Well obviously I’m not talking about the current situation with the new core breaking all the PvE content. When it is functioning as intended that is where the discrepancy is clear.
Not wanting to grind Arena for literally months just to get 4/5 wrath pieces is not laziness. Especially considering you can do everything else on this server so much faster by contrast.

If you want people with equal gear playing vs eachother and you want it to be fair, go play on Blackrock. You get all the gear you need. Plenty of arenas there and Isle of Quel'danas is an extremely fun world PvP zone that frankly should also be implemented on Icecrown. You can also go to Wintergrasp (which alliance is dominant in during EU peak times). I don't understand this belief that PvP = BGs and nothing else.

With WoW being an MMORPG I feel like the feeling of progression is really important. That's why people quickly get bored and burn out on Blackrock. But when the progression for arena points is this low it just puts people off rolling new classes in PvP.

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Originally Posted by ElMarkux

I don't understand this belief that PvP = BGs and nothing else.

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Same here, honestly I am always delighted when I complete the honor grind part. Uncoordinated BGs is not a fun experience.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

Oh so your argument now is that players need to “develop”. Playing with a large stat disadvantage is how player development occurs? What a joke. Just because something is a struggle doesn’t mean it automatically betters you as a player. I have been PvPing on Wrath for over a decade and the fact of the matter is that you simply cannot play in the same way in Furious gear as you could in Wrathful. Against lv 277 items during a CC chain you simply cannot choose to not use a defensive CD as you might in Wrathful because in Furious you simply won’t survive that rotation.

There it is, the actual truth. “I’ve gone through pain so I want others to experience it too”.

Maybe you didn’t notice but I was talking about the discrepancy between furious and wrathful main pieces because of the extremely low arena point gain.

Anarchy? This isn’t a democracy, Warmane regularly makes decisions the majority disagrees with.



I probably will if I find the time, but I guess it will be shot down by people like yourself who have already completed the grind.


Oh I rant regularly across a variety of subjects. I just felt the need to chime in here because the experience for those furious geared players is quite miserable at first and to pretend that isn’t an issue is actually just quite selfish.


Absolutely hilarious thing to say.


Well obviously I’m not talking about the current situation with the new core breaking all the PvE content. When it is functioning as intended that is where the discrepancy is clear.
Not wanting to grind Arena for literally months just to get 4/5 wrath pieces is not laziness. Especially considering you can do everything else on this server so much faster by contrast.

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TL;DR

This discussion came to a point that I could tell you that the sky is blue and you would bring a theory to try to convince people that it's actually red.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

(...) My discussion here is done since I hate to repeat myself over and over and that's all I've been doing in the last posts with different words. If you truly believe that you're holding an idea that would turn the PvP scenario upside down (for the better) go ahead and present your idea to the responsibles for the development.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

Oh so your argument now is that players need to “develop”. Playing with a large stat disadvantage is how player development occurs? What a joke. Just because something is a struggle doesn’t mean it automatically betters you as a player.

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I guess you missed my comment about this earlier so I'll say it again. Was this not a thing on retail for people who were late coming into the season or PvP scene? What about fresh 80's? Non-pvper's who had no gear but decided to try their hand in PvE gear?

If you truly believe that arena points aren't enough, then go find your evidence on archive.org or some other well known source and present it to the proper team and make an issue on the bug tracker.

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Originally Posted by magaginho

TL;DR

This discussion came to a point that I could tell you that the sky is blue and you would bring a theory to try to convince people that it's actually red.

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Glad you went for this cop-out response. Listening to your repetition was getting tedious.

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Originally Posted by Kasumii

I guess you missed my comment about this earlier so I'll say it again. Was this not a thing on retail for people who were late coming into the season or PvP scene? What about fresh 80's? Non-pvper's who had no gear but decided to try their hand in PvE gear?

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I had already addressed this point earlier. Arena Seasons on retail aren't really comparable because they are not permanent. So if a new player joined late in the season when everybody is geared, they don't wait that long until the next iteration of items comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Kasumii

If you truly believe that arena points aren't enough, then go find your evidence on archive.org or some other well known source and present it to the proper team and make an issue on the bug tracker.

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I'm just debating the issue that new players to PvP on this server have it worse than most. I don't actually think I care enough to submit a suggestion that will most likely be shot down by individuals like in the comments above who prefer to maintain their advantage.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

I had already addressed this point earlier. Arena Seasons on retail aren't really comparable because they are not permanent. So if a new player joined late in the season when everybody is geared, they don't wait that long until the next iteration of items comes into play.

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Can you elaborate what you mean here? The arena seasons (in terms of gear) are locked in place so how does the next iteration of items impact new players joining late? Do they not still have to collect furious or relentless gear? (emblems of triumph and frost cover this area for people who PvE as well as VoA 10 / 25).

Personally, I got lucky with the December Christmas event and managed to get my full relentless set and I've been slowly grinding out all the off pieces now in BGs over time. Pre-Moltdown I had a full wrathful set, so I'm having to rebuild my pvp set again from scratch.

Also, your suggestion would be less likely to get shot down if you can provide evidence (formula of any kind) in terms of how the arena points calculation is supposed to work. Examples showing how it's currently not being calculated correctly compared to how it should be calculated with said formula might prove more convincing. If you aren't willing to do this, then you are correct in your assessment: it will never change.

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Originally Posted by TheArtfulDodger

I had already addressed this point earlier. Arena Seasons on retail aren't really comparable because they are not permanent. So if a new player joined late in the season when everybody is geared, they don't wait that long until the next iteration of items comes into play.

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"It's not comparable because it's not permanent, even though it has happened every single PvP season on retail thus far."
K.

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Originally Posted by Justmarried

What if I tell you... it has been like this for years and it will not change, everyone accepts that to get PvP gear, you need to PLAY to get it. Takes time yes true, but we all went thru this (unless you donate), so well deal with it.

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No, fu. I am clearly skilled because I've donored all my gear. Come@me.

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Originally Posted by Lynea

No, fu. I am clearly skilled because I've donored all my gear. Come@me.

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Much skill such wow, clap clap.