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Having a 10 second fear immunity does not mean it's a counter.If the lock isn't undergeared and he doesn't sit there doing nothing,he can survive that 10 second window with his available heals.True he won't be at full hp,but once the immunity wears off,the hunter is going to get "roflstomped".
Are these hard counters or jus classes that wood win the majority? O be honest 60/40 is not really a counter. Also are hunters really that hard of a counter for mages?
Those 10 seconds are HUGE. That's 10 seconds of you taking hit after hit while doing nothing to stop him. You think you can cast UA and haunt ? LOL. GG with that vs a good hunter. At best you will have 2 dots which are pretty much useless on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by yooki
"once the immunity wears off,the hunter is going to get "roflstomped". " ... dude, after those 10 seconds are gone, you will either be at kill shot hp or 2 hits close to kill shot. Guess what happens if he casts kill shot.
"he can survive that 10 second window with his available heals"... no, he can't. Do you play a warlock ? Did you duel and win vs a good bm hunter ? If you did win, how many times did you fight and out of those fights, how many times did you win ? Did he have the same gear as you or did you overgeared him ?
You clearly didn't fight too many bm hunters as a warlock.
Here's what ... tell me how would you fight a bm hunter.
You can win BM with 1450 resil gear+key as destro, but it´s just..meeh. Useless duels
Jesus... That's why 90% good AT players left when they merged with molten
First of all, you DON'T talk about gear when talking about counters. When you talk about a class x a class, what you expect is that both players have the same gear, if they don't, then there's absolutelly no need for any discussion.
Second, the human racial is by far the best because you save one trinked for dps or even heals.
I will not comment on counters on 1v1 because.. meh.. It higly depends on player skills. 1v1 isn't something that you can base anything at all, only if you want to duel and world pvp only. If you want to know what class is better than another, you should learn about 2v2.
Allahkazam is completelly right, you're talking about **** that you know nothing about
"Having a 10 second fear immunity does not mean it's a counter."
Are you serious? Do you even know what 10 seconds means on a 1v1 or 2v2?
As affli vs BM the best you can do is spread dots on him and try to LoS while you spread dots on the pet, he will probably pop everything he can to burst you and you need to survive it. The pet will probably take 40-70% of your healt alone, and you should put pressure on the pet, then the BM will need to call him.
When he manage to get near you with disengage, use DC, spread dots again and repeat until you have a open fear to do a full dot rotation, then LoS again and keep the pressure on the pet everytime. Don't cast anything besides Haunt with cast time, and only cast it on the pet because if he have half a brain, you're probably dead. Drain Life can be usefull when you feel you're safe and will keep you alive for more time, but if you channel it too much, it's advantage to him and not to you.
Another good way to survive him is to have a panic button with Void + Shield for the opener, then you can mitigate some damage from the pet while LoS him.
There are many ways to kill him, but all will be pretty difficult, and that's why BM is a counter to Aff. :)
If you're on a open map, you're fked. Just sit and wait for your death. That's why i said you can't base counters on 1v1 open world/duels.
One thing about your comment : if your tactic is to make him not cast one attack on you and instead dispel your shield, then yeah, you will mitigate "some" damage with void. You do know the shield is magic and huntards can dispel it right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopel
Other that this, yeah, your best tactic would be to "run like you stole something" when you see a huge red pet. Your void + shield tactic would work only when you are behind a tree or something like that where he can't dispel and you only get attacked by the pet but no decent hunter will let you los him in rambo mode.
And if you are in an open area, your best "tactic" is to get on your kees pray to the old gods, titans, the void gods and LK himself that he gets huge lag, a DC or game crash.
You should have some trash buffs like unending breath or even shadow ward up before the shield, but yea, you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allahkazam
First of all, give a hug to Curse of Weakness, your best friend against 40-years old menagerie owners.
Bind that awesome ability and apply on pet as soon as range allows that (you always have time to cast corruption + CoW on the huntard's pet untill it reaches you and huntard uses petstun and then BW). If you are skilled enough, you can interrupt approaching fluffy creature with grenade or tailoring net (grenade is better cause pet may have master call buff) and force earlier BW so you can save few seconds to your butt being not raped hard.
Why CoW you ask ? Removing almost 500 AP from a target wich has around 1700-2000 AP is delicious. At least, you will feel the difference for sure, i promise.
Second: you can counter BM huntard with nitro boots pretty easy, time it with huntard GCD to prevent CS and:
1. Batman style: nitro away, jump of the nearest cliff with parachute and yell some xfaction insults. Escaped like a boss, nuf said.
2. Crazy guy style: pop http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=5634 when pet is almost near you, use nitro when BW is up and rush to hunter leaving pet behind, dot everything around with /flap emotion spam and die. I don't know why you did that.
3. Serious player style: nitro away, minimalize BW duration and... drink, because huntard ran away right after BW duration ended and target remained healthy. Coward class nuf said. Right time to xfaction insult that fedora guy.
4. Gаy-duelmaster style: tank all damage with void shield + void shield resummon + http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50356 +http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=13506 abuse (cover with ward and invisibility trash buffs), trinket petstun and (while absorb is up) cast in his face some BIG_DENGEROUS_SHYTE with /fierce emotion exaggerating your dangerous intentions, that forces huntard to waste some time on FD/deter instead of pure dpsing (big deal if huntard lost AS timing and u fullhealed with deathcoil).
With high chances you will win and he will lose some hairs on the head irl cursing your playstyle. Be ready to accept some whisps within a minute about ur mom's side relationships.
All that tryhard crap works only in 1vs1 world pvp situation and only against standart BM huntard 51-19-0 (not a hybrid spec with readiness) except #2, that works everywhere.
Bonus.
If situation allows, firstly derail pets. That makes huntards upset, especially if not talented with pet resurection.
Upset huntard = good.
not megicQuote:
buffs like unending breath
UH dk /thread
Sorry to burst your bubble BUT :Quote:
Originally Posted by Havanaclub
1 - huntard pet has sprint and charge
2 - once that fluffy pet goes rambo mode it can't be stopped meaning your bombs and nets are useless
"you can counter BM huntard with nitro boots pretty easy" ... almost every huntard has engineering so your tactic is useless.
1 - "Escaped like a boss, nuf said" ... yeah, that's pretty much the best tactic when you fight a warlock ... RUN.
2 - "I don't know why you did that" ... me neither :))
3 - "nitro away, minimalize BW duration" ... pet has charge and sprint, remember ? Also, huntard has a spell that slows you down so while you struggle to use nitro boots at half the speed, he will nitro your a*s into oblivion.
4 - "tank all damage with void shield + void shield resummon" ... i'll just dispel your first shield so gg.
In theory evey class is easy to beat.
Gotta love the second tactic tho.
I gave a hope to that guy, now you come and derail everything.
That is the main reason why i hate gnomes.
http://i.imgur.com/t8LGGuq.gif
Oh boy this has escalated...
Alright scenario A- The battle begins in an open field without trees,pillars,rocks,no los whatsoever.It's the hunter's playground.He starts shooting and his pet begins chewing on the locks behind.Bestial wrath and w/e pet dmg increase has been popped.First 2 seconds the lock puts a corruption on the hunter and his pet.During that time he probably has already taken between 4-6k dmg.He uses his VW shield.It gives him an 8-10k absorb depending on his talents.The hunter shoots his tranq shot to try and dispell it.Lock has 2 junk debuffs on and the shield makes it 3.Now option A-the tranq shot removes the shield.The hunter praises the RNG gods.Option B - tranq shot fails the hunt and dispells some of the other buffs.This shield gives the lock about 3 or 4 if lucky seconds of absorption.Enough time to pop a haunt and an UA.What curses does he choose ? - weakness on the pet for the mentioned already ap debuff which isn't small,elements on the hunter for the increased corruption damage and therefore healing.CoE or agony would be useless as the hunt can't be slowed and agony takes ages to do it's damage.During the shield time,the lock has healed up around 1k from the ticks (with aimed shot on of course).The voidwalker is near the hunter and has used suffering for the reduced hit which might help,might not.Shield ends,can summon another vw for the shield.Another 3 seconds without damage and enough for a drain life.Let's assume the lock is crap out of luck and no instant shadow bolt has popped yet.How much time is left on the bestial wrath ? 2-4 seconds.What now ? Riiight the warlock has a teleport.Where should it be placed ? Far away from the hunter's reach - 20 to 40 yds.This forces the hunter to either chase him down on foot or disengage towards the lock.On foot it will take him about 3-4 sec depending on how far the portal was or 1-2 with the disengage.So in the end - it's either 2xshields during the duration of BW giving the lock a bonus to hp of 16-20k (again depending on talents) In a 10 second corruption with about 800-900 haste and 1.1k resil on the hunter - that's a 2k heal.Might have used a hstone,might not.Or it's only 1 shield because the tranq shot has managed to remove the first and the second has been used (tranq has a cd afterall) making it 8-10k absorption and 2k hp from the corruption ticks. Now after bw is over it can go either way,but if the fight goes over 20-5s from start to finish, the lock would win as a full single duration of his dots chews 50% of the hunters hp,even more if a lucky crit lands but chances are small.
Now for Scenario B - there are trees,pillars,etc.Hunter goes BW,lock pops corruption,ports behind a pillar,hides 10 seconds while dotting and draining the pet if not recalled and the hunter's trump card goes to waste.
In both scenarios the lock runs hides and delays time as much as possible.You don't face the hunter like a man taking his ultra dps head on.You face him like a scared *****..Just like a mage wont sit there in a warriors bladestorm casting frostbolts.Time is affl best friend.
What i'm saying - can a bm beat up affl =yes.Can an affl beat up a bm=yes.What would decide the victor ? -many variables just like 90% of 1v1 fights - the rng almighty gods,mistakes made,terrain,hell even ms.Did not include proffs because both can cheese the **** out of them.The way I see it a counter is a class that can beat up another no matter what (ex. frost mage - ret) and I don't think this is the case and it's why I said no real counter (my opinion). Your opinion on a counter may differ and that's fine.
For the fellow up - I simply mentioned gear in the counter comment because on icecrown,lorda lots of times there is a gear difference but you can still counter chosen classes even if they outgear you.(talking about rele/wf ,furi/wf in some cases) I did not consider Blackrock and I apologize for that.
For the OP: i'm sorry for all the offtopic,got carried away and won't argue anymore bout that.To answer your mage-hunter question - hunters are a very pesky enemy for a mage.Often they will outrange you,slows aren't very effective due to some hunt abilities,they have a disengage,a silence if MM,it's not as easy to cc them as some other classes,mages are a bit squishy and overall it's a pretty uphill battle for them.
I'm asking for equal skill/gear. What would the counters and hard counters be on the classes in the opening post. Hanks for all the hunter warlock stuff. Can we get opinions on all classes though. Even if you disagree with each other.
Awww come on, you know you love us. What can be better than a gnome rogue with noggenfrrrghjdgajkshdar elixir, shrinking food and shrinking engineering that takes down a huge cow warrior or anyone ? Just imagine ... being killed by a dot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havanaclub
"Enough time to pop a haunt and an UA" ... do you really think you will be able to cast that on a good hunter ? And if the hunter is a nelf, you are even in more trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by yooki
Dude, in theory every class is easy to beat. IN THEORY.
"The way I see it a counter is a class that can beat up another no matter what" ... yeah, and bm is a counter for warlocks. Sure you will maybe be able to beat a hunter that isn't too good but you will never beat a pro bm that knows what to cast and when. Just as a pala vs a mage. A pro pala will beat a "meh" mage.
I asked you above ... how many good bm did you fight ?
"Time is affl best friend." ... but the problem is, with bm you won't have time because by the time those 10 seconds end, he will be able to cast kill shot on you. And again, what happens when you get hit by KS ?