Horde Multi-boxers are ruining Wintergrasp PVP

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Originally Posted by vieiraj

I like how kids compare multiboxers with premade.
Last time horde premade tried to spamcamp alliance in WG they just fed alliance with ranks, meanwhile 2 boxers with 25 characters each can rape everyone only just by placing fire nova totems on the entering point.

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For one I am not a "kid", that would be a baby goat. And the reason I suggest premades, is they are usually better geared players and alot more organized. As for a five boxer not making much of a difference.. I took my undergeared druids vs mbxa outside of Orgrimmar and almost single-handedly took him down, just ask him. If I would have had someone to assist with an aoe stun it would have been all over. In this example all it would take is five to six people. With decent aoe damage and at least one of them with a way to lock him up for a moment. Heck I was in boomy spec and I am geared for resto, so if I would have had some spell pen I am sure I could have done it myself.

The issue, in my opinion, is not people unable to take down a boxer. It is a clear lack of skill and/or coordination.

Just two facts:

1. Horde is premade faction. Full of premades outside/inside battlegrrounds.
2. Horde can't do **** on WG without multiboxers.

Two multiboxers with 24 shamans each have much more firepower than any premade you are able to make.
Because its little bit hard to make 50 man premade full of casters.
Indeed, multiboxers are absolutely garbage on the battlegrounds like AB or EOTS, but we are talking about wintergrasp where they are > premades.

What did happen outside of Orgrimmar is not on my business. I'm talking about the impact they cause in WG on its general speaking, not a simple duel agaisnt another multiboxer. I would highly appreciate it if you stop dodging the conversation in your favour. Well, if you really want specific situations, I and some random lock managed to slay a 5man ret paladin boxer (I died still before 5th), so yeah 5 man boxers don't scare a butterfly in WG. Now ask yourself why horde started to win wg more often once Purplebeer + Borug + Bobea + few others joined it. Or yeah, you're right, maybe alliance suddenly magically lost all their skill and coordination on which no one has told me about and boxers clearly don't make any difference right? Right...

Every boxer will say it's lack of skill and such, truth is, everything actually comes in, namely skill, coordination, gears count too, setups (classes around + your duel agaisnt Mbxa) count too, abilities in question count too (mind seer + starfall in example would already hurt, I guess), meh too bad that coordination is something unexistant in pugs...

I'm totally fine having multiboxing around, I really don't mind at all, but just don't tell me it's just others who have lack of skill or coordination because that's just being ignorant and refusing to see and feel other point of views different from yours. I can understand you want to defend mb the way you want, but don't expect other players to simply ignore it and let it go because those actually have a point though, and if you don't mind, spend some more time here on the forums and check how many more topics about this will come up.

I say it again, I'm fine with this, I must confess though, I've seen more and more boxers around joining the server, and I'm afraid that sooner or later this will become a baxer-fest, so, I ask myself, if it does, where in the hell should I pvp then? We will see...

But you act like this is something game-breaking. My example about outside of Org was to let you know that a small group of coordinated people CAN take out a large-scale multiboxer. When people recklessly get in range of one, without a plan or whatever, ya you are going to die. the same thing if you try to attack or get chased by any group of people that are focusing you. Take the multiboxing thing out of the equation for just two seconds and think of it as numbers. Also the thing with mbxa wasn't a duel, I was testing my own ability to take him out. Did I try once, die and come crying on the forums? No, absolutely not. I did what any group of knowledgeable people would do and came up with a plan of attack. Whether it is in open world, BG or large BG such as Wintergrasp it makes no difference. It is a challenge you CAN learn to overcome.

Why look at something so negatively and stay mad? Use your brain and learn how to overcome it. As far as posts of people pissed off about multiboxers, that has happened for a very long time on retail, on here, you name it. Honestly the majority of the time it is the same type of people. Ones that do not or can not fathom how they could beat "the mighty multiboxer", this is probably the same type of people that fail in any PUGs unless they are carried or are the ones that either cannot take direction, or do not follow directions well.

Multiboxer = good coordination, but lack of mobility
Large group of players = mobility and then it falls back to coordination or lack thereof

That is the difference. I am trying to explain to you guys that instead of looking at this as making some huge argument or debate, to try and use your problem solving skills, learn to be social and work together with others, come up with a coordinated plan instead of flying by the seat of your pants.

The other person mentioned they can't put together a premade full of 50 casters. For one that's extreme and a cop out. It doesn't take a premade of 25 to 50 people to take down a multiboxer of any size. Just think about it.

I am not trying to dodge anything whatsoever in my favor, I am simply trying to explain that what you see as such a huge problem is your own perspective and lack of problem solving. You are making something sound as if it is impossible to overcome, when it is definitely not.

Could you randomly take 30-40 people into a major city raid, with nobody leading, nobody following direction, or anyone sticking together for any type of plan and expect to steamroll the city? Most likely not. But if you had a coordinated team of five to ten people, following directions, sticking to a plan and communicating, you could do just fine.

**NOTE: I do apologize if I have come across as harsh in any way in this conversation, I am simply trying to get people to understand some things, and not sure if it is helping or not lol

EDIT: Also I wanted to add in a WG I was in just a little bit ago today, Bobe was there with us Horde side, and I also saw a large-scale multiboxer on the Alliance side, yet we still won. I wonder if maybe gear, or skill, or coordination, or lack of any of those things, had anything to do with it? Maybe it had more to do with the rest of the people in the battleground? WHo knows. It baffles the mind.... lol

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Originally Posted by Drkwispurr

What did happen outside of Orgrimmar is not on my business. I'm talking about the impact they cause in WG on its general speaking, not a simple duel agaisnt another multiboxer. I would highly appreciate it if you stop dodging the conversation in your favour. Well, if you really want specific situations, I and some random lock managed to slay a 5man ret paladin boxer (I died still before 5th), so yeah 5 man boxers don't scare a butterfly in WG. Now ask yourself why horde started to win wg more often once Purplebeer + Borug + Bobea + few others joined it. Or yeah, you're right, maybe alliance suddenly magically lost all their skill and coordination on which no one has told me about and boxers clearly don't make any difference right? Right...

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no1 is denying the fact that boxers dont make differance, but the idea is not that ally lost their skills. Randoms in bg/wg and wpvp was never into cooperation, wich made most of the bg's gear dependant, the higher gear team wins. when facing multiboxer, you cant just rely on gear and those who have smourne are useless just by themselves unlike when they are facing randoms. you should think about it as a need in new tactics just like in pve, you cant beat vdw with bql tactics can you?
Its pretty simple, multiboxing is a new(well not rly new, but for warmane's people) way of pvping wich requires other things to know. its not enough to roll ur head over a keyboard.
Alliance loses becouse they dont know or dont want to know how to beat multiboxer, not that they lost their skills.

And about increasing boxers community its not quite true. now there are 7 boxers on horde side(2-3 on allaince), 3 are with 20-25 chars, others 10 or less.
this number doesint really change, it can be drop to 4 and it can grow to 9, but most of those who start quit boxing right after they hit 80 cus of constant wipes or they dont even hit 80. There might seem to be newcommer boxers, but usually its just same boxer but with another team.

To the whiners - Nothing you cry about is going to change things. the stance Warmane has on Multi-boxing has been stated time and time again, you come here to post frustration at your own perceived injustice. I get it, but get over, grow up and stop crying.

To my follow boxers - Stop trying to justify our play-style, we have every right to play here as the crybabies. They will never stop complaining, stop giving them a platform, these only go on for as long as they do, cause you pay attention to them.

I get it, I used to want to defend it, I couldn't care less now, let them come here and cry, I say come find me in game, and enjoy your corpse run.

I'll play how I want, cause its not against any rules, and no amount of stomping your feet like a baby is gonna change it.

Actually, it does seem like I am trying to defend it, which I am to a point, but my real goal is more to educate them a bit, get them thinking, and get them to organize better, I like challenges :)

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Originally Posted by Intima

I like challenges :)

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You look most adequate among all local multiboxiers.
So i gonna ask, what is "challenge" ?

It's almost imposible to cooperate as pug - that's well known fact.
And thats why you multibox, because you know, chance to pop on alliance premade is 0.0001% due to insane ques.

-got beaten - donated for gear
-got beaten again - rose more bis characters
-got beaten again - created more bis healers
... "ey, guys, where is challenge" ?

I can bid all my characters, if miracle wil happen and you meet only organized alliance premades, our local losers will run around with 50 bis characters instead of 25. Because challengers.
I'am too lazy now, but i could quote on of multiboxers, who said something like "the main reason i multibox is huge disorganization in pugs, so now i can rely on myself only". That only approves my words.

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Originally Posted by Elephant

Lately a few multi-boxers are dominating Wintergrasp. You used to see one occasionally, but now there are a couple that have 10-20 accounts, killing players at the starting position and completely controlling the game single-handedly. This is ruining the entire point of playing Wintergrasp. Why is this allowed?

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Probably because it was allowed on retail and it brings money to the server. I'm just gonna leave my previous answer here that I've copy pasted in other multiboxing QQ threads.

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Have you tried going around the multiboxers or avoiding them? You can apply counter zerg tactics to make the multiboxer's life harder (or more boring).

Biggest drawback to multiboxing is they're stuck in one place and have to move together.

People who complain about multiboxers are like people who complain about ending up in the hospital after playing in the traffic.

If you know you're about to run into a meat grinder, turn around? Go around? Bring friends? Fear bomb? Knock backs? Hello? Is there a brain up there? Don't just willingly walk / run into your death then complain about getting killed.

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C'mon, it's simply hilarous to see 10 shamans casting a chain lightning and 4 people down. Today I saw like 15 dk's using howling blast on a group of people and BOOM!! I just lol'd like an ***** XD

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Originally Posted by Russkov

C'mon, it's simply hilarous to see 10 shamans casting a chain lightning and 4 people down. Today I saw like 15 dk's using howling blast on a group of people and BOOM!! I just lol'd like an ***** XD

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10shamans chain isnt enuf to down any well geared character, from 10 chains i do arround 25k dmg on 1st, and like 15k on 2nd. With 17 shamans i kill 2, in rare cases 1 or 3.

Glad you had fun, but believe me, i was having more fun!
Btw, there was 20dks. I usually dont 1hit ppl with purely howling blast, unless they are undergeared, tho dots finish off usualy, but still, im just 3k gs so far.:)

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Originally Posted by Intima

But you act like this is something game-breaking. My example about outside of Org was to let you know that a small group of coordinated people CAN take out a large-scale multiboxer. When people recklessly get in range of one, without a plan or whatever, ya you are going to die. the same thing if you try to attack or get chased by any group of people that are focusing you. Take the multiboxing thing out of the equation for just two seconds and think of it as numbers. Also the thing with mbxa wasn't a duel, I was testing my own ability to take him out. Did I try once, die and come crying on the forums? No, absolutely not. I did what any group of knowledgeable people would do and came up with a plan of attack. Whether it is in open world, BG or large BG such as Wintergrasp it makes no difference. It is a challenge you CAN learn to overcome.

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False. I'm not saying anything about something being game-breaking. My goal in the end was to spread my opinion and my own point of view about analyzing mb's impact on each situation while taking both internal and external factors into consideration while being as much honest on my words as I can, thing that no one, or very low people, even bother to be when writing on the forums. What drives me crazy in fact is other players getting so offended by hearing few different opinions, going to rushy assumptions of "crying" and "being uneducated". Sorry my friend, but that's not exactly how forums should work. (Un)fortunately, the topics are free and open for everyone to share our thoughts. It appears to me that some people, including you, need to learn how to respect other opinions if you want them to respect yours. I assume you know this already, even though sometimes you don't wanna do it, I get it...
I know they are not impossible to kill, I know it's possible to "overcome". I know you can take it down with a lower group, depending on your setup ofc. I said this on almost every recent topics about multiboxing. Hell, I even gave advices to other players who were constantly creating more and more threads on the forums talking about the exact same thing. I ended up to give multiboxers a support when others were saying/asking/suggesting to disable/forbid it, because I actually understand that it's really good idea to allow it as they contribute good amounts of money. Feel free to search my posts on my profile if you doubt it. I had experienced enough times already to distinguish how's horde performance in both bgs and wg when they have boxers and when they don't. It's very easy to manage it in battlegounds, especially AB and EotS where you have to control lots of things at the same time, so yeah, lets skip that part. In wg, however, the scenario is different. That's why I said internal (the power boxer has itself, what the boxer does, and where he goes) and external (what other faction players do/have and the ground map at your disposal, gys, roads etc.) factors above. The first thing that a boxer does is to place 20 magma totems 10 secs before wg begins on the enemy starting position and then use fire nova. What happens? Every single player will just spawn on the graveyard, making them late and force certain classes to buff up in hurry. No, obviously that won't decide anything, but it's something already. Now, you can say "oh, b**** pls, a 15 man "premade" can do that too", right, but that already requires something else, and it isn't just two or three buttons by one player only. Another thing they do that I kinda find it funny, is about those two bases near the Fortress, they change the cursor from one corner to another in three seconds or so, not to mention now, the fact they can easly destroy all vehicles around shooting at gates, or they can efficiently support them in case he is attacking. Now, based on these situations as examples, the external factors come into play. First thing that comes to mind is general gearscore. Don't expect a low gs player to do anything because all you will receive are tickles, and sadly, in pugs, they are very common. A proper setup combining with a good tactic is needed too (not separated). Again, sadly, in pugs, it never happens. Communication? Socialize and work together? Don't make me laugh. Each time I do bg's / WG and say something in bg / general char, respectively (yes, trying to communicate, giving informations, telling my teammates to do this and that, defend gy, defend fortress cuz it's being under attack, careful about multiboxer, grab vehicles and come destroy the towers, etc), I end up either being ignored, or getting as answer something like "stfu" or "sukmy****". So yeah, easy to say to work together and say boxers are so easy to beat, well yeah, I honestly don't disagree, but considering how alliance play combining with their attitudes, no, it's not that easy nor that simple. I know, you're going to ask, hey why don't you bring premades then? For bgs is completely out of the question considering alliance side has very high queues quite often, even as solo-q I use to catch 10m queues. For WG, they will definately be our only hope, but why should they bother? They have everything they need and could not care less about it, all they care is about rating and that's it. I assume boxers are going WG for fun, or because they want to keep the fortress under control. Alliance "premades" won't care, period, or very few will. So, giving these factors, mixing them, I will have no other choice but to say "yes" if someone asks me if I think boxers (and I'm talking about 25BiS ones, not ungeared toons) helps their faction by a lot in WG. Note that I haven't said anything about being overpowered, I haven't said anything about being impossible to beat, I said they have the power to change the outcome of a WG battle, meaning, yes, they make a difference. So it's not exactly about me or all others who are too lazy on solving certain problems, or lack of thinking, it's more about not having the proper conditions against it, as it must have a considerable level of effort. Sure, there are several clueless players around, which is normal, and lots of others who simply won't bother, but it's not just that and you should be aware of it. And sure too, it's not your fault alliance are too dumb, but it's not our fault either.
As you can see, I had bothered to try to be constructive and honest about mb'ing pros and cons, as well as what to do against them, how to deal against them, giving my PoV so you could at least comprehend our issues aswell. Several people on the forums don't really bother reading much, then come here reply not exactly because they disagree with something, but more because it is said something they don't want to hear. That's why the first thing that comes to their minds is the word "crying", defending only their own interests, pretty funny if you ask me. It's pretty rich argument power isn't it?
So yeah from now on I suggest you to "educate" someone else instead, not me, I dispense that. But thank you anyway for your "concern".

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Originally Posted by Dralanne1

no1 is denying the fact that boxers dont make differance, but the idea is not that ally lost their skills. Randoms in bg/wg and wpvp was never into cooperation, wich made most of the bg's gear dependant, the higher gear team wins. when facing multiboxer, you cant just rely on gear and those who have smourne are useless just by themselves unlike when they are facing randoms. you should think about it as a need in new tactics just like in pve, you cant beat vdw with bql tactics can you?

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No one? The boomkin guy just did it. Something like in the words of... "Whether it is in open world, BG or large BG such as Wintergrasp it makes no difference." But doesn't matter...
You don't think I already know that? Game is totally different when facing pugs, premades, or boxers. But I tell you one thing, as a solo queuer from ally side, I'd rather face "premades" then boxers for sure, at least in wsg, because vs prem I always have the chance to 1v1 someone. And actually I've beat them several times. I remember a wsg I did on ragnaros where Borug used 10 chars, picked our flag and rambled around whole bg. My teammates weren't that great geared so even though we tried to stick together, lots of us ended up being 1 shot, and considering he has BiS chars including 3 resto druids if I'm not mistaken, he never went below 80% hp. It ended 0-0. But now for bgs like AB, it's very easy to win, as he should be able to control 1 base only at a time. That yes is the biggest con boxers have in my opinion. Alliance loses WG, yes, part of it it's because of ******ed play, but the other part is because the conditions to overcome you guys are way too low and at least you could understand that it's not easy at all.
I actually tried something funny agaisnt Purplebeer which I'd like to share, I started sapping his alts while he was running on mount, so it was like 24 chars still going and one stopped lol, too bad there were lots of single char users around too and aoe'ing and such, this could be a free kill for me, unless Purplebeer would have thought about turning back, of course ;)
I damn hope you're right about your "prognosis" on mb's quantity. Right now it does not worry me but we will see in the future.

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Originally Posted by Drkwispurr

I actually tried something funny agaisnt Purplebeer which I'd like to share, I started sapping his alts while he was running on mount, so it was like 24 chars still going and one stopped lol, too bad there were lots of single char users around too and aoe'ing and such, this could be a free kill for me, unless Purplebeer would have thought about turning back, of course ;)
I damn hope you're right about your "prognosis" on mb's quantity. Right now it does not worry me but we will see in the future.

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Depends on the situation, in critical moments i give up characters to keep going with rest of the train. Gotta get your prioritys straight. ;)

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Originally Posted by Drkwispurr

The first thing that a boxer does is to place 20 magma totems 10 secs before wg begins on the enemy starting position and then use fire nova. What happens? Every single player will just spawn on the graveyard, making them late and force certain classes to buff up in hurry.

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I have never heard of this, but I did notice this in the latest update's changelog:

Totems will now despawn once they are no longer in the owner's visibility range

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Originally Posted by Drkwispurr

Each time I do bg's / WG and say something in bg / general char, respectively (yes, trying to communicate, giving informations, telling my teammates to do this and that, defend gy, defend fortress cuz it's being under attack, careful about multiboxer, grab vehicles and come destroy the towers, etc), I end up either being ignored, or getting as answer something like "stfu" or "sukmykok".

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I understand your frustration here, as it is a dawn of a new generation of trolls. But please be careful, as changing letters as to avoid the profanity filter is specifically mentioned in the forum rules.

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Originally Posted by Drkwispurr

and I'm talking about 25BiS ones, not ungeared toons) helps their faction by a lot in WG. Note that I haven't said anything about being overpowered, I haven't said anything about being impossible to beat, I said they have the power to change the outcome of a WG battle, meaning, yes, they make a difference.

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Would putting together some people or communicating with a pvp focused guild and getting more high geared toons on your side not make a difference? A majority of the time I come across mostly higher geared alliance players in WG, and they kick my *** pretty good unless they are just clueless. Yes I understand if the majority of your side had crap gear regardless of organization it would suck, but I see alot of well geared people out there. Every day. And as far as I know we have been losing alot. I understand this discussion is about multiboxers ruining WG for you or whoever, but I play alot, and I do not see the larger-scale boxers in WG multiple times a day. Maybe it's just me since I am so focused on objectives like capping workshops, grabbing quick rank and then building vehicles...

One last quick point I would like to mention, which has been completely ignored the last two times I mentioned it. Over the last few days of this conversation of people complaining about the horde multiboxers, MBX had changed factions to alliance. Yet there have been ZERO complaints here about that from the Horde side. And yes I have ran into him and got steamrolled. But the thing is, I play five accounts, so I am technically a multiboxer, yet I face some of the same challenges that you would against a larger scaled multiboxer. So should I complain about it on the forums? Should I blindly defend them? I choose neither, I just join in the conversation and try to explain thing from my point of view as well. This is why the majority of what you see me saying is how it is possible to kill one. Yet I am told I am completely defending them/us.

Just some food for thought.

Thanks for informing me about the filter thing, I wasn't thinking about it at the time. Post edited.
Anyway about magma totems, don't forget that you have around 20 seconds to join WG battle, meaning within that time, you'll be able to aoe them down after they keep being teleported more and more to the starting point. Ask Purplebeer, he does that a lot.
It's not hard to figure out why there isn't any horde player so far who will complain about ally mb. First, horde on this server is a little bit more PvE minded, so winning in PvP doesn't mean for them the way it does for ally, says me, idk. Second, horde winning in PvP events is something that doesn't happen so often and they are kind of used to that already, so, losing vs mbs and losing vs no mb, doesn't matter, it's loss. And third, there are plenty horde who know they use to play with boxers around, so as for me, it would not sound reasonable to me, like, ally plays with boxers qq blabla, then as answer, lol you have more boxers stop qq kthxbai, turning into another useless hate thread. Same goes for you, you're not going to complain because, not only I believe you have the maturity not to do it, but also he is doing something you're also doing.